For all you Ganguly haters...

[Son Of Coco]

mmmm....thats right...I was so jealous of India losing big twice in the world cup to us

haha, yeah I was jealous too when their potent attack kept us to 350 in the WC Final.

 

[Raj123]

It will, but we'll all know why.

arent you a bit embarrassed to say: "we have absolutely no bench strength in australia. if we loose two bowlers the whole team comes crashing down to earth, and cant even win a series( against a decent side) in our own backyard."

i would be.

 

[Raj123]

Recent success?

Please remind what exactly this so-called success is?

A 1-1 series against a seriously understrength Aussie side, and a 2-1 win against a typically inconsistent Pakistan.

It's still no series wins outside the Subcontinent since the 80s!

who gives a rats about winning outside the subcontinent. all india has to do is win the series against australia in the subcontinent( which the history of last 30 years says we should) and they are the 2nd best team in the world (officially).

 

[Son Of Coco]

arent you a bit embarrassed to say: "we have absolutely no bench strength in australia. if we loose two bowlers the whole team comes crashing down to earth, and cant even win a series( against a decent side) in our own backyard."

i would be.

No, we had enough bench strength to hold India to a 1 all draw and some people on here are claiming that they're the second strongest team in the world. We basically had no bowlers and still went ok. Aren't you a bit embarrassed to say: "we can't even beat a sub-par Australian side with a full strength team"!? The fact that we actually managed to bowl the Indian side out twice with that attack and win a game should be enough embarrassment itself - and we spared you the game on a Perth wicket. We really couldn't have done you any more favours and you still drew.

 

[marc71178]

Not Really. Botham never played in South Asia after that, Not even Reliance world cup.

And that changes the nature of his comment how exactly?

 

[marc71178]

if doesnt matter if theyre typically inconsistent or not they lost, india won. just like england at the mo - winning not losing. as for understrength aussies - we still drew against australia in the record books itll saay 1-1 india/australia it wont say understrenngth australia.

Yes, but that is the extent of the "success" of which he talks.

Doesn't really compare to the success being experienced by other sides at the moment (yet they're supposedly jealous of the Indian "success")

 

[marc71178]

arent you a bit embarrassed to say: "we have absolutely no bench strength in australia. if we loose two bowlers the whole team comes crashing down to earth, and cant even win a series( against a decent side) in our own backyard."

i would be.

Aren't you a bit embarassed by the fact you don't have one seam bowler that would make any of the Austalian, English, South African, Pakistani, New Zealand sides?

 

[Scallywag]

Did a google on Botham only because he allways let himself go when in Perth.

http://www.crikey.com.au/whistleblower/2001/09/16-walkleyslist2.html
Ian Botham: Arrested in Perth for manhandling a bloke on a flight. Constantly in trouble for brawling, boozing and bonking.

Botham is one of my alltime great cricketers.

 

[Scallywag]

Ganguly has a long list of ungentlemanly actions.

Breach of Codes 1 & 2, failing to uphold his responsibility as Captain for the spirit of the game, including failure to control the conduct of his players, thereby bringing the game into disrepute. Found guilty and received a one Test match and two ODI matches suspended suspension, effective immediately until 31st January 2002, as long as he remains Captain of India.

Breach of Code 2 after gesturing and speaking to Sri Lankan batsman after he had dismissed him. Found guilty, issued with a severe reprimand and fined 75% of his match fee,

Sri Lanka v New Zealand
5th ODI 26 July 2001 at Premadasa Breach of Code 3. Upon being given out LBW by Umpire Gamina Silva he raised his bat and left the pitch shaking his head. Found guilty of dissent. Suspended for one ODI match with immediate effect and will not be eligible for selection to play in 6th ODI against Sri Lanka (28th July)

Breach of Code 3. Showed dissent to umpires after being given out LBW. Suspended from participation in the 1st ODI at Cochin on 1st April 1998.

Breach of logo policy 2.5. Wore red piping on pads far in excess of that allowed. Fined 35% of match fee.

SA v Ind 3rd Test at
Jo'burg, 16/20 Jan 1997 Continued and aggressive appeal after bat/pad appeal turned down. Fined 25% of match fee.

India v Zimbabwe 4th ODI, Kanpur
11th December 2000 Breach of Code 2,3 & 4 – showing dissent several times towards umpire Sathe. Suspended for (1) One Day International match and suspended suspension of (2) One Day International matches for period 11 Dec 00 – 1 June 01. If found in breach of Code at any time during this period, suspension will automatically apply.

 

[Raj123]

"we can't even beat a sub-par Australian side with a full strength team"!? . .

no zaheer, no harbhajan, no salvi( top of bench at that time), no srinath(retirement on the eve of selection). we obviously had all our best bowlers

and we spared you the game on a Perth wicket. We really couldn't have done you any more favours and you still drew.

who spared who we'll never know.
packed for 190 in adelaide, 8/60 in brisbane. oh yes of course, its so clearly the indians.

 

[viktor]

\QUOTE
no zaheer, no harbhajan, no salvi( top of bench at that time), no srinath(retirement on the eve of selection). [\QUOTE]

not to mention a 19 yr old making his debut..... yeah perth would have been interesting... may be AA would have got his 2nd fifer!!!

 

[Raj123]

Aren't you a bit embarassed by the fact you don't have one seam bowler that would make any of the Austalian, English, South African, Pakistani, New Zealand sides?

congratulations Marc71178, this is probably the most pathetic argument that i have ever seen you put up. i mean, comparing the supporters of world's best team using the non-availability of 1 or 2 bowlers as an excuse and india not having a top pace bowler, only you could have pulled it off.

first, to answer your question. no i'm not, coz indians never (except for kapil and srinath) really had world class seam bowlers. Instead they developed quite a few world class spinners who win matches for india. tell you what though, i'd be pretty embarassed to use that as an excuse to justify our poor showing (outside) in the past. And the way you keep bringing up the fact that we havent ever done well outside subcontinent tells me you dont think its a justifiable excuse either, so why you are defending this excuse is beyond me.

second, here are a few questions for you to answer:
are you embarrassed that only 2 of your batsmen are in the top 20 (16 &18)?
are you embarrassed that you have someone like Trescothick to open rather than hayden(2), sehwag(8), gibbs(9)?
are you embarrassed that you have butcher/key at 3, as opposed to one of the best batmen in the like dravid (1) or ponting (4)?
are you embarrassed that you dont have one of the best batsman of all time to come in at 4?
.
.
.
.
you dont have to be. just dont use that as an excuse for a poor performance.

 

[Raj123]

Recent success?

Please remind what exactly this so-called success is?
A 1-1 series against a seriously understrength Aussie side, and a 2-1 win against a typically inconsistent Pakistan.

It's still no series wins outside the Subcontinent since the 80s!

whats your defence when someone says england has only beaten WI and NZ:
"before the series you call it close and after england won you say its only WI and NZ". if i were to use the same -"before the ind-aus series everyone knew there would be no warne and mcgrath but still predicted 2-0, 3-0 at best. now they draw the series dominating the same team and its an under strength aus side".
how do you explain the double standards??

Please remind what exactly this so-called success is?

if we win the aus series(even 1-0) we would be 2nd best. if you think indian success is a delusion, where do you think that leaves england.

 

[Scallywag]

-"before the ind-aus series everyone knew there would be no warne and mcgrath but still predicted 2-0, 3-0 at best. now they draw the series dominating the same team and its an under strength aus side".
how do you explain the double standards??

Its easy to explain the double standards, first you only drew the series then you say they dominated the series. For a good example of domination look at the ODI series, now thats domination dont you think.

 

[Jono]

^ No, the ODI series wasn't dominated. If you're going to argue that it doesn't matter who wins or who loses, but how close it was, then let's look. First ODI, extremely close, second, close and India win, third Australia win thanks to a fluke 6 from Bret Lee. From then on it was dominance, but how many teams do you know will go up against the Aussies at home and play 3 great games in a row? Not many, if any.

People try and play down India's success/good showing in Australia, I don't know why, but at the end of the day, they came home with the trophy didn't they? They obviously aren't better than the Aussies, but they put up a great fight when no one expected them too. Almost everyone said 4-0.

 

[Scallywag]

^
People try and play down India's success/good showing in Australia, I don't know why,

Because it was stated that India dominated Australia, now had "
India's success/good showing in Australia" been used instead I would have agreed.

 

[Son Of Coco]

whats your defence when someone says england has only beaten WI and NZ:
"before the series you call it close and after england won you say its only WI and NZ". if i were to use the same -"before the ind-aus series everyone knew there would be no warne and mcgrath but still predicted 2-0, 3-0 at best. now they draw the series dominating the same team and its an under strength aus side".
how do you explain the double standards??


if we win the aus series(even 1-0) we would be 2nd best. if you think indian success is a delusion, where do you think that leaves england.

Firstly if you had dominated us the score would have been slightly more than 1-1 (or is that something along the lines of when NZ 'dominated' us a few years back with a 0-0 draw when they were saved twice by rain?). As far as our bowling stocks went for the series, not only were Warne and McGrath missing (and you have to admit that these are our two best bowlers) but Gillespie and Lee were coming back from injury. As far as I'm concerned you're going to need at least couple of matches under your belt after being injured to start bowling well again so these guys were kind of thrown in at the deep end. Unfortunately for India we weren't missing any of our top batsman, and you only managed to bowl us out twice in a test match once to register a win. Anyone who thought Australia would win the series 2-0 or 3-0 before it started must have been kidding themselves as far as I'm concerned - you can't have 4 of your top-line bowlers (I'd use that term loosely for Lee now! haha) either not there or not at 100% and expect to run through an Indian team with a number of quality bats - if India had a bowling attack like England seems to be putting together though they possibly would have done a bit more.

As for who saved who, I think India's liking of the pace and bounce (or rather lack thereof) of the Perth wicket may have counted against them.

 

[Son Of Coco]

no zaheer, no harbhajan, no salvi( top of bench at that time), no srinath(retirement on the eve of selection). we obviously had all our best bowlers

who spared who we'll never know.
packed for 190 in adelaide, 8/60 in brisbane. oh yes of course, its so clearly the indians.

Arent you a bit embarrassed to say: "we have absolutely no bench strength in India? If we lose two bowlers (I don't think you can count retirement - surely they were aware this was happening) the whole team comes crashing down to earth, and cant even win a series (against a sub-par side) in their own backyard."

I would be.

 

[marc71178]

Breach of logo policy 2.5. Wore red piping on pads far in excess of that allowed. Fined 35% of match fee.

What an evil scoundrel!

35% of a match fee for that?!

 

[marc71178]

no zaheer, no harbhajan, no salvi( top of bench at that time), no srinath(retirement on the eve of selection). we obviously had all our best bowlers

This has been said so many times, but what people keep failing to recognise is that the Indian pace attack are much of a muchness and all at a similar level, so missing one you get one almost as good (or bad depending on which way you look at it) coming in.

Losing McGrath and co, the replalcements are NOWHERE near as good bowlers.