Worst Player to Play 100 Tests?

[Burgey]

I don't think Vettori belongs in this discussion at all tbh, and there's a very good argument he's NZ's 3rd greatest cricketer ever behind Hadlee and Crowe.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I very intentionally left that fact out. Man we had you ****s 10-5 and then 70-6 IIRC, and were on the verge of a famous and unlikely Test victory.

Wellington 2014 felt just as bad to us I can assure you.

90/5 needing 150 to avoid an innings defeat and you ****s end up drawing it. So ****ing annoying. Worst day.

 

[Athlai]

I very intentionally left that fact out. Man we had you ****s 10-5 and then 70-6 IIRC, and were on the verge of a famous and unlikely Test victory.

All revenge for our customs team fining him for bringing dirty boots into the country in the 200s

 

[Zinzan]

Wellington 2014 felt just as bad to us I can assure you.

90/5 needing 150 to avoid an innings defeat and you ****s end up drawing it. So ****ing annoying. Worst day.

I'll concede yours was a slower a more drawn-out form of torture. Ours was like a heavy bandage on a hairy leg being ripped straight off. I vividly remember between good shots that jammy ass would repeatedly miscue into no mans land.

 

[Top_Cat]

Strauss should be up there with Atherton/Bell as far as "Worst English Players To Hit 100 Tests" go. His captaincy gives him an advantage but that doesn't change the fact that for large chunks of his career he wasn't all that good.

More like MWaugh, personally. Didn't do a lot between good scores but damn if some of his runs weren't bloody consequential or, at least, annoying to the opposition. I can barely think of a Bell score which really sealed the W but it's easier with Strauss.

 

[Flem274*]

Would Fleming have played 100 Tests if he was from another Test team? I reckon England/AU/SA/India and maybe Pakistan would have dropped him for a couple seasons at some stage over his career. Of course the actual answer is Boucher.

depends who he played for, and of course if you play for oz/eng/india you'll play an absurd amount of games. ramprakash and hick both have 50+ tests for example.

 

[MW1304]

More like MWaugh, personally. Didn't do a lot between good scores but damn if some of his runs weren't bloody consequential or, at least, annoying to the opposition. I can barely think of a Bell score which really sealed the W but it's easier with Strauss.

Nah this isn't fair to Bell. Had three of them in one Ashes series in 2013.

Most of his key knocks came in the same two-year window though.

 

[morgieb]

Nah this isn't fair to Bell. Had three of them in one Ashes series in 2013.

Most of his key knocks came in the same two-year window though.

Yeah, that's the main exception to Bell's typical kind of form.

 

[Xuhaib]

Asad Shafiq will win this at canter in a few years time. How can you average 39 while batting at six for most of your career cushioned by Azhar,Misbah and Younus on those flat UAE tracks

 

[Top_Cat]

Nah this isn't fair to Bell. Had three of them in one Ashes series in 2013.

True. Bell especially dirty to miss player of the match gong at Lords that series.

 

[vcs]

Bell played some good match-saving knocks against SA (with a fiery Steyn and Morkel) around 2010 and also against NZ when Prior hit that 4th innings century.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Surprised looking back how slow Vettori's progress was in ODI cricket - up to (and including) the 2003 World Cup he really wasn't all that effective. And Hogg at that stage was as good a batsman as Vettori.

Vettori would have had a great Shield career in Australia and been primed to take over as a 29/30 year old in Test cricket upon Warne/MacGill's retirement, as well as providing a secondary spin option before that with his batting.

His record in terms of quantity of runs and wickets has benefitted from playing for New Zealand, but in terms of averages he may have looked a more effective cricketer "on paper" playing for Australia. The other thing is with his back injuries and how much he would have changed as a bowler over time, from the big spinning youngster that he was to the straight break change of pace reliant bowler from mid-2000s onwards. How workload etc. might have changed that, we can never know.

 

[Howe_zat]

Australia played Marcus North as an allrounder for a couple of years. Madness to claim that Vettori wouldn't have had a career for them.

Australia played 60 Tests in the first five years after Warne's retirement. In that time Vettori hit 2000+ runs at 37 and took 131 wickets at 34, despite playing just over half that. The collective effort of actual Aussie spinners for that period* is 195 wickets at 42.

So while he would have had to wait for Warne and so wouldn't have played 100 tests, I'm confident he'd have played around 60 which is a substantial career by any standards.

*Cricinfo claims to count 20 different players here

 

[Top_Cat]

Surprised looking back how slow Vettori's progress was in ODI cricket - up to (and including) the 2003 World Cup he really wasn't all that effective. And Hogg at that stage was as good a batsman as Vettori.

Vettori would have had a great Shield career in Australia and been primed to take over as a 29/30 year old in Test cricket upon Warne/MacGill's retirement, as well as providing a secondary spin option before that with his batting.

His record in terms of quantity of runs and wickets has benefitted from playing for New Zealand, but in terms of averages he may have looked a more effective cricketer "on paper" playing for Australia. The other thing is with his back injuries and how much he would have changed as a bowler over time, from the big spinning youngster that he was to the straight break change of pace reliant bowler from mid-2000s onwards. How workload etc. might have changed that, we can never know.

You don't reckon he'd have gotten a guernsey before Magilla/Warne retired? Maybe on the away tours at least.

 

[stephen]

You don't reckon he'd have gotten a guernsey before Magilla/Warne retired? Maybe on the away tours at least.

I reckon he'd have been viewed much like O' Keefe was.

 

[Top_Cat]

The difference being, of course, that unlike O'Keefe he could actually bowl tweakers and his batting wasn't pure uncut mythology.

 

[jimmy101]

Holy **** Howe_zat changed his avatar. My eyes feel like they're exploding.

 

[Migara]

atherton had superior peaks

185* and 98* are two of the great modern day, back to the wall efforts

Hoopers 178 against Pakistan in 1993 was a mach winning marathon. Put 130 with Courtney Walsh for the last wicket. Yes folks, Courtney Walsh it is.

 

[Migara]

He wasn't too bad against us before McGrath came good. Had no clue against him though.

Expected it against McGrath, when he was like startled deer in a beam, against all kinds of Chaminda Vaas

 

[Migara]

Average vs Australia when McGrath was playing vs when McGrath was not playing

Atherton - (20.51 - 17 Matches) v (39.45 - 16 Matches)
G.Smith - (23.41 - 6 Matches) v (36.80 - 15 Matches)
Dravid - (31.47 - 12 Matches) v (43 - 21 Matches)
Tendulkar - (36.77 - 9 Matches) v (61.83 - 30 Matches)
G.Kirsten - (29.66 - 14 Matches) v (55.50 - 4 Matches)
Ganguly - (26.81 - 9 Matches) v (40.58 - 15 Matches)
Lara - (46.38 - 24 Matches) v (67.91 - 7 Matches)
Kallis - (40.47 - 14 Matches) v (41.85 - 15 Matches)

Fun fact, Aravinda de Silva averages 36.3 when McGrath played (Warne played in all of them), compared to 47 ll together against Aus. Never dismissed by McGrath in tests or ODIs.