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Thread: **Official** County Cricket 2017

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    But would you (speaking hypothetically, as the ECB, the idiots who run English cricket) annoy a preexisting permanent fanbase/cricket attendees to that particular number and to that particular economic equation? A new franchise will not have a single fan before starting out. It will begin tabula rasa.

    County Cricket has never in its entire history brought enough money in to sustain it with a few brief exceptions such as after the two wars. It has also changed constantly, e.g. constant tinkering of the points system and fixture quorum, four-day matches in the late '80s (from three-dayers), two divisions (2000). I do not understand your point here.
    I'm not really convinced it does annoy a pre-existing fanbase. Not sure that members as a whole are that taken with T20 as it is.

    My point is that change is good and should be embraced not be blocked on the grounds of historical ties. Less first class cricket in the top division for example would help us develop players with more explosive skill sets rather than low ceiling grinders.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    My point is that change is good and should be embraced not be blocked on the grounds of historical ties
    Nobody is advocating a static championship though! Straw man argument. As I said, the county championship has forever been in flux since 1890 and has never quite settled down to a 'ideal format'. I do not understand what you are getting at here?

    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    Less first class cricket in the top division for example would help us develop players with more explosive skill sets rather than low ceiling grinders.
    I completely disagree. The best place to produce test cricketers is in county cricket, not Twenty20 nor even one-dayers. We could have used more of those 'grinders' you talk about in India! Look at a superb cricketer Australia have produced recently, Matt Renshaw. Look at Hameed and Jennings who plied the majority of their cricket in the county championship before their test debuts; those were two of the only batsmen for England to emerge from India with any respect. You need those sort of players for test cricket with the correct defensive skills, not Warner types chucking their wicket away.

    You discuss ''less first class cricket''. Until 1968, the number of matches played by each county stood at around 28. Between 1969 - 87, the number fluctuated around 24. Beginning 1993 this had been reduced to 17. Beginning 2000 (two divisions) this has been further reduced to 16. Commencing 2017, each county will play a mere 14 matches! Fans of county cricket have been the cricket fans who have seen their preferred format being cut the most. It strikes me a tad unfair to suggest further cuts when Twenty20 fans will see an entire second competition arrive in 2019 or 2020, to co-exist with the current competition which they currently enjoy! It has been fans of the county game who have been hit hardest of all.
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  3. #168
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    Listening to Gough talk is so painful. Constantly sad about how he did not get any T20 money and behaving as if he is talking truth to power when he triumphantly states that T20 is the future of cricket..

    Also WAC Pietersen is.. He called SL, NZ, WI and BD minnows because 'people' apparently don't want to watch them play.
    Quote Originally Posted by duffer View Post
    Heh.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by indiaholic View Post
    Listening to Gough talk is so painful. Constantly sad about how he did not get any T20 money and behaving as if he is talking truth to power when he triumphantly states that T20 is the future of cricket..

    Also WAC Pietersen is.. He called SL, NZ, WI and BD minnows because 'people' apparently don't want to watch them play.
    Pietersen is a joke. He constantly slagged off test cricket after being axed from England only to say the Stokes/Mills IPL deals are ''damaging to'' - lo and behold - ''test cricket''. He slagged off county cricketers (from memory, ''mugs only receiving 17,000 per year'') only to join Surrey when he was trying to get back into England. He slagged the Blast off, yet has just joined Surrey's Twenty20 side for this upcoming Blast, turning down the Caribbean league. He just pulls these statements out of his arse.
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  5. #170
    "Only weeks left" to stave off Headingley crisis | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

    Come on ECB. Relegate them and points deduction for next season. Oh and don't forget Hampscum while you're at it. Would mention Glamorgan as well but they're so shite it will make no difference anyway.
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  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    "Only weeks left" to stave off Headingley crisis | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

    Come on ECB. Relegate them and points deduction for next season. Oh and don't forget Hampscum while you're at it. Would mention Glamorgan as well but they're so shite it will make no difference anyway.
    I know there is the Colin Graves financing 20 odd million debt hypocrisy but in the Tykes' defense, their players (Bairstow I recall) were some of the first to commiserate Durham; it was not difficult to read between the lines that they found Durham's punishment harsh. Do not forget that Yorkshire have also had their own personal battles with the ECB hierarchy, namely slaphead Strauss's decision to not release Bairstow for the championship decider against Strauss's former club. I cannot then gloat or wish for another northern powerhouse to be penalised by the ECB - it is the ECB who are the genuine 'scum' in English cricket, not the counties.

    Hampshire? Okay, you have me there haha.

  7. #172
    Well Graves is involved with the ECB, although I've no idea how much actual power he has within it. So I don't have much sympathy for Yorkshire.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    Nobody is advocating a static championship though! Straw man argument. As I said, the county championship has forever been in flux since 1890 and has never quite settled down to a 'ideal format'. I do not understand what you are getting at here?



    I completely disagree. The best place to produce test cricketers is in county cricket, not Twenty20 nor even one-dayers. We could have used more of those 'grinders' you talk about in India! Look at a superb cricketer Australia have produced recently, Matt Renshaw. Look at Hameed and Jennings who plied the majority of their cricket in the county championship before their test debuts; those were two of the only batsmen for England to emerge from India with any respect. You need those sort of players for test cricket with the correct defensive skills, not Warner types chucking their wicket away.

    You discuss ''less first class cricket''. Until 1968, the number of matches played by each county stood at around 28. Between 1969 - 87, the number fluctuated around 24. Beginning 1993 this had been reduced to 17. Beginning 2000 (two divisions) this has been further reduced to 16. Commencing 2017, each county will play a mere 14 matches! Fans of county cricket have been the cricket fans who have seen their preferred format being cut the most. It strikes me a tad unfair to suggest further cuts when Twenty20 fans will see an entire second competition arrive in 2019 or 2020, to co-exist with the current competition which they currently enjoy! It has been fans of the county game who have been hit hardest of all.
    You can draw a few examples, but the reason we have so many similar types of players (an absolute legion of right arm, 82-85 MPH seamers for example) is because they are forced to play way to much cricket. To bowl with express pace or develop dynamic skills you need to be able to do it in shorter sharper bursts.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Well Graves is involved with the ECB, although I've no idea how much actual power he has within it. So I don't have much sympathy for Yorkshire.
    Colin Graves is the absolute head honcho (chairman) although it was Tom Harrison (chief executive ) I believe who drew up Durham's penalties (Harrison, having had a well earned rest from punishing Durham, has just recently grown fond of 4-day tests by the way!). Former-chairman Giles Clarke, after completely buggering cricket up the arse - with such ventures as, the Stanford Twenty20 fiasco (helicopter and wads of cash), Cook ''comes from the right sort of family'' comment and the big three carve up of international cricket - resigned as chairman but promptly created a new ECB role (president) and nominated himself as its first holder! That is why he is still swanning around the ICC corridors of power. Andrew ''white ball'' Strauss oversees the demise of red ball cricket in the guise of 'director of England cricket'. Those are the Four Horseman who are determined to destroy English cricket: Giles, Colin, Tommy and Andy.

    Chuck in some sympathetic chairman like Rod Bransgrove, the dodgy pharmaceutical tycoon who bankrolled the Rose Bowl white elephant.
    Last edited by S.Kennedy; 20-03-2017 at 11:26 PM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    You can draw a few examples, but the reason we have so many similar types of players (an absolute legion of right arm, 82-85 MPH seamers for example) is because they are forced to play way to much cricket. To bowl with express pace or develop dynamic skills you need to be able to do it in shorter sharper bursts.
    Absolute rubbish. County cricket produced Larwood, Frank Tyson, Snow, Willis, (early) Botham, Harmison, Flintoff and Simon Jones after all! More recently we have seen Mark Wood. If there is a dearth in English pacemen it is not the championship's fault - quite the reverse I would argue.
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  11. #176
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    Through the 70s and 80s when the windies had all their quicks, how much cricket were they playing? Would it have been less test cricket but much more first class cricket that the internationals of today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Flint View Post
    Through the 70s and 80s when the windies had all their quicks, how much cricket were they playing? Would it have been less test cricket but much more first class cricket that the internationals of today?
    I read an article somewhere and it theorised that cricketers are actually playing less today (contrary to current opinion). There was certainly less test/one-day cricket but far more championship cricket. If they played 28 three-day matches to our current 14 four-dayers, you arrive at the figure of 84 days of championship cricket to our 56 - assuming full play. There was probably more limited overs matches also as there were three List A competitions in operation from 1972 (i.e. the Gillette Cup, the Sunday League and the Benson & Hedges Cup). Since 2010 there have only been two limited overs competitions, a List A and the Twenty20.

    Pre-central contract, England's administration (the TCCB as it was then) had virtually no power so players tended to play all county games if available. England couldn't mandate the resting of players like with the Bairstow, v Middlesex 2016 example. Players were probably more patriotic to their counties so would just tell the TCCB to bugger off.
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  13. #178
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    Bres doesn't have the pace these days as a bowler but as a batsman he really is accomplished. If England had a couple of injuries before the champions trophy (to the likes of Stokes, Moeen or Woakes) he's someone who could come in and do a good job in a high pressure game. Could maybe even bat 7 these days.

    Been listening to the cricket today. Sounds like Crane was going back to Aus if NSW made the final of the sheffield shield (which they haven't). I really think that they should have allowed him to skip these games and play the NSW game this past week.

    Fairbace was on the commentary for a while. I really don't think any of the england setup have any idea about the county setup and the players that get selected from outside the current group and what their games are about. Seemed surprised that Dawson was a good white ball cricketer. No wonder guys the likes of James Taylor and Sam Billings were misused in recent years.
    Last edited by theegyptian; 21-03-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Bres doesn't have the pace these days as a bowler but as a batsman he really is accomplished. If England had a couple of injuries before the champions trophy (to the likes of Stokes, Moeen or Woakes) he's someone who could come in and do a good job in a high pressure game. Could maybe even bat 7 these days.

    Been listening to the cricket today. Sounds like Crane was going back to Aus if NSW made the final of the sheffield shield (which they haven't). I really think that they should have allowed him to skip these games and play the NSW game this past week.

    Fairbace was on the commentary for a while. I really don't think any of the england setup have any idea about the county setup and the players that get selected from outside the current group and what their games are about. Seemed surprised that Dawson was a good white ball cricketer. No wonder guys the likes of James Taylor and Sam Billings were misused in recent years.
    Bayliss by his own admission has never seen a game of county cricket in his life, and seems to have lengthy sojourns in Oz for some peculiar reason. I agree with Mason Crane. Having an English spinner gaining vital match practice on Australian first-class wickets ahead of an away Ashes seems infinitely more important than this North v South thingy, which is being billed as a dress rehearsal for a competition which will not happen until 2019. More of Strauss's ''white ball madness'' I fear. The Australians do not let many Poms play Shield cricket. I think you have to go back to Vic Marks or Botham even in the late '80s. Grab that opportunity when it arises I say - especially for a youngster!

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    I read an article somewhere and it theorised that cricketers are actually playing less today (contrary to current opinion). There was certainly less test/one-day cricket but far more championship cricket. If they played 28 three-day matches to our current 14 four-dayers, you arrive at the figure of 84 days of championship cricket to our 56 - assuming full play. There was probably more limited overs matches also as there were three List A competitions in operation from 1972 (i.e. the Gillette Cup, the Sunday League and the Benson & Hedges Cup). Since 2010 there have only been two limited overs competitions, a List A and the Twenty20.

    Pre-central contract, England's administration (the TCCB as it was then) had virtually no power so players tended to play all county games if available. England couldn't mandate the resting of players like with the Bairstow, v Middlesex 2016 example. Players were probably more patriotic to their counties so would just tell the TCCB to bugger off.
    Yeah but the West Indies pacemen of the 70s and 80s were, gasp, not as fast as most bowlers who are around today.

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