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Thread: Let's agree on a definition of "choke"

  1. #1
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Let's agree on a definition of "choke"

    To my mind, a choke requires three elements:

    1) a strong team must
    2) play themselves into a winning position, and
    3) play terribly from that point due to succumbing to mental pressure or panic.

    Weak teams can't choke because they're expected to lose and thus don't have the pressure. They have to play themselves into a winning position first because if they don't they just got beat, not choked. And they have to succumb to mental pressure to distinguish a choke from bad luck or an outstanding play by the opposition.

    Note that you can choke and still win (c.f. All Blacks in the 2011 RWC final).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    weak teams can choke. nz 2008 - 2012 and bangladesh 2000 - 2014 have made it an art form
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Well if SA lose this this will go down as one of the biggest chokes ever.

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    ABs 2011 doesn't really count. Piri was injured (same injury that struck down DC and Slade) and the French played the game of their lives. We didn't play terribly after Beaver kicked the penalty. The defence to keep out that French time was outstanding


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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.

    Can apply to a player, can apply to a team. Can occur at a winning position, or right from ball one.
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    I don't think it should be considered a choke if u win.

  7. #7
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I don't think it should be considered a choke if u win.
    I reckon the BCs kind of choked against Australia, but just managed to bring it home.

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    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.
    Yeah this is accurate. SA v. Aus 2007 WC Semi was a choke despite Aus being huge favourites simply because the SA batting let the pressure of the occasion absolutely destroy them.
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    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.

    Can apply to a player, can apply to a team. Can occur at a winning position, or right from ball one.
    Yep. But I'd say that you have to lose before it can be called a genuine choke IMO.
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    International Coach ankitj's Avatar
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    Basically, what South Africa does in knockouts. Let me think.
    Last edited by ankitj; 18-03-2015 at 05:24 AM.
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  11. #11
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Yep. But I'd say that you have to lose before it can be called a genuine choke IMO.
    A player could choke and still end up on the winning side though.

    If a whole team chokes, they'd probably lose anyways. Hard to think of examples where you could say one side choked yet still found a way to win.

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    International Debutant kykweer.proteas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teja. View Post
    Yeah this is accurate. SA v. Aus 2007 WC Semi was a choke despite Aus being huge favourites simply because the SA batting let the pressure of the occasion absolutely destroy them.
    Veto. Thats not a choke.

    Also a choke cant be from ball one unless

    You were seeded highly
    You play a minnow
    In the context of the tournament you dont make the playoffs after being one of the favorites.

    What sri lanka did today was not a choke but just a poor performance mixed with a good one. Sri lanka also ended third in their pool. So it is unlikely that they were going places anyway.
    South africa is not a minnow, the only thing that made sri lanka favorites was the fact that south africa were expected to lose, but they surprised us all.

  13. #13
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    Veto. Thats not a choke.

    Also a choke cant be from ball one unless

    You were seeded highly
    You play a minnow
    In the context of the tournament you dont make the playoffs after being one of the favorites.

    What sri lanka did today was not a choke but just a poor performance mixed with a good one. Sri lanka also ended third in their pool. So it is unlikely that they were going places anyway.
    South africa is not a minnow, the only thing that made sri lanka favorites was the fact that south africa were expected to lose, but they surprised us all.
    SA were huge favourites pre-game with the bookies bud.

    It's amusing to see all the SA fans not rate their chances at all while on the other hand a solid % of neutrals considered them the best side in the cup with Martin Crowe etc. predicting them to win pre-series. Great contrast.

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Can't define this term without reference to South Africa.

  15. #15
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Failing under pressure a la 2007 is a clear choke and no amount of South Africans coming in denying it will change that.
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