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Let's agree on a definition of "choke"

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
To my mind, a choke requires three elements:

1) a strong team must
2) play themselves into a winning position, and
3) play terribly from that point due to succumbing to mental pressure or panic.

Weak teams can't choke because they're expected to lose and thus don't have the pressure. They have to play themselves into a winning position first because if they don't they just got beat, not choked. And they have to succumb to mental pressure to distinguish a choke from bad luck or an outstanding play by the opposition.

Note that you can choke and still win (c.f. All Blacks in the 2011 RWC final).

Thoughts?
 

SuperMurali

School Boy/Girl Captain
ABs 2011 doesn't really count. Piri was injured (same injury that struck down DC and Slade) and the French played the game of their lives. We didn't play terribly after Beaver kicked the penalty. The defence to keep out that French time was outstanding
 

zorax

likes this
IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.

Can apply to a player, can apply to a team. Can occur at a winning position, or right from ball one.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.
Yeah this is accurate. SA v. Aus 2007 WC Semi was a choke despite Aus being huge favourites simply because the SA batting let the pressure of the occasion absolutely destroy them.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
IMO, a choke is significantly under-performing due to the pressure of the situation and that alone. It's the literal opposite of rising up to the big occasion.

Can apply to a player, can apply to a team. Can occur at a winning position, or right from ball one.
Yep. But I'd say that you have to lose before it can be called a genuine choke IMO.
 

ankitj

International Coach
Basically, what South Africa does in knockouts. Let me think.
 
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zorax

likes this
Yep. But I'd say that you have to lose before it can be called a genuine choke IMO.
A player could choke and still end up on the winning side though.

If a whole team chokes, they'd probably lose anyways. Hard to think of examples where you could say one side choked yet still found a way to win.
 

kykweer.proteas

International Debutant
Yeah this is accurate. SA v. Aus 2007 WC Semi was a choke despite Aus being huge favourites simply because the SA batting let the pressure of the occasion absolutely destroy them.
Veto. Thats not a choke.

Also a choke cant be from ball one unless

You were seeded highly
You play a minnow
In the context of the tournament you dont make the playoffs after being one of the favorites.

What sri lanka did today was not a choke but just a poor performance mixed with a good one. Sri lanka also ended third in their pool. So it is unlikely that they were going places anyway.
South africa is not a minnow, the only thing that made sri lanka favorites was the fact that south africa were expected to lose, but they surprised us all.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Veto. Thats not a choke.

Also a choke cant be from ball one unless

You were seeded highly
You play a minnow
In the context of the tournament you dont make the playoffs after being one of the favorites.

What sri lanka did today was not a choke but just a poor performance mixed with a good one. Sri lanka also ended third in their pool. So it is unlikely that they were going places anyway.
South africa is not a minnow, the only thing that made sri lanka favorites was the fact that south africa were expected to lose, but they surprised us all.
SA were huge favourites pre-game with the bookies bud.

It's amusing to see all the SA fans not rate their chances at all while on the other hand a solid % of neutrals considered them the best side in the cup with Martin Crowe etc. predicting them to win pre-series. Great contrast. :p
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Failing under pressure a la 2007 is a clear choke and no amount of South Africans coming in denying it will change that.
 

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
choke1
tʃəʊk/
verb
verb: choke; 3rd person present: chokes; past tense: choked; past participle: choked; gerund or present participle: choking

1.
(of a person or animal) have severe difficulty in breathing because of a constricted or obstructed throat or a lack of air.
"Willie choked on a mouthful of tea"
synonyms: gag, retch, cough, struggle for air, fight for breath, gasp
"Christopher gulped and started to choke"
cause (a person or animal) to choke.
"the toys contained parts that could choke a very young child"
synonyms: suffocate, asphyxiate, smother, stifle; More
overpower, overcome
"thick clouds of dust choked her"
strangle, throttle;
asphyxiate, suffocate;
informalstrangulate
"she had been choked to death when her necklace snagged on overhanging branches"
prevent (a plant) from growing by depriving it of light, air, or nourishment.
"the bracken will choke the wild gladiolus"
prevent or inhibit the occurrence or development of.
"higher rates of interest choke off investment demand"
informal
(in sports) fail to perform at a crucial point of a game or contest as a result of nervousness.
"we were the only team not to choke when it came to the crunch"
2.
fill (a space) so as to make movement difficult or impossible.
"the roads were choked with traffic"
synonyms: clog (up), bung up, block, obstruct, stop up, silt up, plug, dam up; More
congest, jam;
informalgunge up;
technicalocclude, obturate
"sections of guttering were choked with leaves and other debris"
3.
make (someone) speechless with a strong feeling or emotion.
"he was choked with fury"
cause (someone) to feel tearful or extremely upset.
"I was so choked up I started crying and couldn't sing any more"
suppress a strong emotion or the expression of such an emotion.
"Liz was choking back her anger"
synonyms: suppress, hold back, fight back, bite back, gulp back, swallow, check, keep in check, restrain, contain, control, repress, smother, stifle, curb, bridle, rein in; More
bite one's lip;
informalkeep a/the lid on
"he choked back his tears"
4.
enrich the fuel mixture in (a petrol engine) by reducing the intake of air.
"carbon monoxide results during a cold start, when an engine is choked"

noun
noun: choke; plural noun: chokes

1.
a valve in the carburettor of a petrol engine that is used to reduce the amount of air in the fuel mixture when the engine is started.
"an automatic choke"
a knob which controls the choke in a carburettor.
"he pulled the choke out to its full extent"
2.
a narrowed part of a shotgun bore near the muzzle, serving to restrict the spread of the shot.
"many guns may not have the right choke"
3.
an inductance coil used to smooth the variations of an alternating current or to alter its phase.
4.
an act or the sound of a person or animal having difficulty in breathing.
"a little choke of laughter"

Origin


there u go
 

straw man

International Coach
When next South Africa a team are losing from a position of dominance I shall consult Spikey's post for inspiration.
"har har they have occlusions in their throatses har har"
"the bracken will choke the wild gladiolus"
 

Spark

Global Moderator
A player could choke and still end up on the winning side though.

If a whole team chokes, they'd probably lose anyways. Hard to think of examples where you could say one side choked yet still found a way to win.
NZ tried pretty hard.
 

Top_Cat

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Choking's one of those things; hard to agree on a solid or consistent definition but damn if you know what one looks like and you sure do know who is likely to suffer a sport-related occusion of the pharynx.

As for teams choking but finding a way to win, that's pretty easy. Hell, I can think of two in the same series; England at both Edgbaston and TB in 2005. Australia were dead and buried in both games* yet England let them back in late in the piece with some bone-headed cricket but still managed to claw their way to win in the end.

*Yes, yes, Marc, Kasper LBW, first ball, we know.
 

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