View Poll Results: Best NZ test Captain

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  • Stephen Fleming

    18 69.23%
  • Brendon McCullum

    3 11.54%
  • Geoffrey Howarth

    3 11.54%
  • Jeremy Coney

    1 3.85%
  • John Wright

    0 0%
  • Daniel Vettori

    0 0%
  • Other

    1 3.85%
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Thread: Rank New Zealand's Top 5 Test Skippers (vote for number 1)

  1. #1
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Rank New Zealand's Top 5 Test Skippers (vote for number 1)

    So fellas, with the recent emergence of this McCullum-led NZ Test side, where do we rank Bmac vs. past NZ test skippers and what is your top 5?

    I already have McCullum as high as no. 2 after Stephen Fleming. Another year or two like 2014 and he could well go above Flem for me.

    1) Stephen Fleming - Best all-round test skipper we've had. Took over an 'easy-beats' team in 1997 and turned them into a well-respected/competitive test side peaking between 1999-2003. My only criticism is there were times in which his body language deflated too quickly on the field. No such criticism of the man off the field & was absolutely brilliant with the media.

    2) Brendon McCullum - Yup, already have him 2nd (just ahead of Howarth) on the back of what he's achieved in the last 18 months or so. Clearly an amazing team-man who really inspires his players to back their natural instincts and ability. Brilliant both on and off the field. It's not hard to believe Fleming is his manager given how much he sounds like Flem when dealing with the media these days.

    3) Geoff Howarth - I'm too young to remember much of his captaincy, so primarily going on what I've read/heard about him and his results. From all reports he was one of the best instinctive 'on-field' captains ever. My uncle tells me the channel 9 commentators used to gush over the way he used to direct his fielders around (admittedly in one-day cricket). Unfortunately he was not so great off the field, had some bad moments with the media and was reportedly always the last the leave the bar.

    4) Jeremy Coney - The total opposite to Howarth in that he was absolutely brilliant off the field in terms both planning (with manager Glenn Turner) and his handling of the media. There's a legendary story about him stumping some Aussies journos through the use of 'big' words they needed to look up in a dictionary, which is hardly surprising of Coney. He was criticised however for looking a little 'lost' and 'directionless' on the field at times.

    5) John Wright - Excellent inspiration skipper, who played some of his best test innings as captain. Was just a bit lacking when it came to tactics at times.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 09-01-2015 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Martin Crowe? Captained in tests for too short a time period?
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  3. #3
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Martin Crowe? Captained in tests for too short a time period?
    Was obviously brilliant as an ODI skipper in the '92 WC, but his 16 tests resulted in 2 wins (1 against Zim) and 7 losses, admittedly not with a great side at his disposable.

  4. #4
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Anyway, went with McCullum but it's basically a tie for first with Fleming. If Fleming had the same squad at his disposal as BMac, he would very likely produce the same results, but with less individual flair in his own performances.


  5. #5
    State Regular Immenso's Avatar
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    Flem's teams were third/fourth innings chokers.

    Baz's team did similar at Lords in 2013, but is far in very short span the current team have won some vital third innings like at the Basin the last two years.

    Remember the graphics in the last test of the highest 4th innings chases at the Basin? They were against Flem's team.

  6. #6
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immenso View Post
    Flem's teams were third/fourth innings chokers.

    Baz's team did similar at Lords in 2013, but is far in very short span the current team have won some vital third innings like at the Basin the last two years.

    Remember the graphics in the last test of the highest 4th innings chases at the Basin? They were against Flem's team.
    That is true Immenso, Vettori's sides had a similar problem with 3rd/4th innings chokes as well.

    Incidentally, you've been watching NZ cricket longer than I. Was that a fair assessment of Geoff Howarth?
    Last edited by Zinzan; 09-01-2015 at 08:01 PM.

  7. #7
    State Regular Immenso's Avatar
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    Gee, I don't think my memories as an 8 or 9 year old would do Howarth any justice.

    The first captain I would have an opinion of would be M Crowe. Who was excellent, as good as any tactically, but negated by his personal skills with his teammates.

  8. #8
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Anyway, went with McCullum but it's basically a tie for first with Fleming. If Fleming had the same squad at his disposal as BMac, he would very likely produce the same results, but with less individual flair in his own performances.
    Hmm I didn't even think about it that way. Was just going to automatically go with Fleming as I believe he was better with his field settings. McCullum is probably one of the more innovative captains of the last decade in the field but I think Fleming was better at producing wickets from nothing and keeping the opposition under pressure despite average bowling.

    But McCullum has been amazing with his on-field performances as captain. He still bats aggressively but actually seems to take a bit of responsibility in knowing how to temper that aggression. He is block bashing like the greatest block bashers to ever play the game.

    I'll give the nod to Baz. If he brings us the WC I think he'd probably be our undisputed greatest captain.

    It also makes me excited for Williamson's future captaincy, with his experience under Baz and his own natural knowledge of the game, we may see something special there too.
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  9. #9
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Fleming's indivudual performances improved considerably starting with the 2002 Australian tour. Like baz he made a habit of going really big too.

    Hard for me since I don't ever remember Fleming making a tactical mistake whereas Baz has his (few) moments, but I was so young so...
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    Hall of Fame Member HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    I so like McCullum's captaincy thus far, but I also think it's reasonable to say that he's had better players at his disposal than the majority of his predecessors.

    It's incredibly hard to rate the likes of John R Reid, who accomplished so much with very limited resources, or even someone like Walter Hadlee.

    I'd still have Fleming at number 1, but we'll see where McCullum stands when he retires I think.
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  11. #11
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Where do we stand on Ken Rutherford's captaincy (I started watching cricket full time from the 1993/94 tour of Australia) and why didn't he play post 1994/95? Too much baggage for Germon/Turner to deal with? Killed it in South Africa in the later part of the 1990s.

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    The vitriol levelled at McCullum when he took the reigns is a bit embarrassing now, isn't it?

    I remember being impressed by his captaincy in England in 2013 (his batting less so) but the discussion was aiming to crucify him for any error.
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  13. #13
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    The new regime deserved the harsh criticism during the Taylor backstabbing/45 all out/aggression rights period.

    There was always going to be a long period of tenseness and grouchiness after what happened, which would only be rectified by time and winning really. We had a drawn series against England and nothing else in mid-2013.

    That's why Baz is so awesome. He took a team from such ugly beginnings to what they are now. It takes one hell of a bloke to unite a team when the former captain and the current coach have all but called each other liars in public.

    Even today you'll notice kiwi CWers post "**** off White" whenever David White shows his noggin on the telly.
    Last edited by Flem274*; 10-01-2015 at 03:11 AM.
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  14. #14
    Cricketer Of The Year wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    The vitriol levelled at McCullum when he took the reigns is a bit embarrassing now, isn't it?
    It was completely and utterly justified. Well, not at McCullum in particular, but at the whole situation. He was definitely involved but it's unclear how much say he had in some of Hesson's very questionable actions prior to the change.
    Last edited by wellAlbidarned; 10-01-2015 at 03:36 AM.
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  15. #15
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Where do we stand on Ken Rutherford's captaincy (I started watching cricket full time from the 1993/94 tour of Australia) and why didn't he play post 1994/95? .
    Kenny Ruds' actually had a fair bit going for him as a skipper. He was tactically astute enough, just lacked the right composure and was too easily rattled.

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