Botham vs Snow - Who was a better bowler?

[ImpatientLime]

So the back injuries were his fault were they?

Guess Bruce Reid's injuries were his fault then too.

Bruce Reid didn't become a fat mess.

Botham never maxed his potential. Botham didn't give himself a chance at maxing his vast potential.

 

[harsh.ag]

a) I think we all acknowledge that. Botham did become a fat mess, and never maxxed his potential.

b) The poll results definitely point to Snow being favored.

c) I don't see why that should mean people should be heckled for fawning over Botham's brilliant peak.

And weldone, seriously, I don't need condescension from you. I am a huge Murali fan, and not for a second am claiming Botham was a better bowler in any sense. Get off my back; I am just trying to relax on this forum. Don't need your ****.

 

[fredfertang]

Botham never maxed his potential. Botham didn't give himself a chance at maxing his vast potential.

Possibly not in absolute terms, but in reality I think the flaws were part and parcel of what made him so great in his pomp

 

[OverratedSanity]

a) i think we all acknowledge that. Botham did become a fat mess, and never maxxed his potential.

B) the poll results definitely point to snow being favored.

C) i don't see why that should mean people should be heckled for fawning over botham's brilliant peak.

And weldone, seriously, i don't need condescension from you. I am a huge murali fan, and not for a second am claiming botham was a better bowler in any sense. Get off my back; i am just trying to relax on this forum. Don't need your ****.

sf>>>cw

 

[harsh.ag]

They let Sledger with his hideous 78 posts stay on, and banned me!

EDIT: He is banned too. All our posts are gone. It's like we never did those awesome things

 

[weldone]

a) I think we all acknowledge that. Botham did become a fat mess, and never maxxed his potential.

b) The poll results definitely point to Snow being favored.

c) I don't see why that should mean people should be heckled for fawning over Botham's brilliant peak.

And weldone, seriously, I don't need condescension from you. I am a huge Murali fan, and not for a second am claiming Botham was a better bowler in any sense. Get off my back; I am just trying to relax on this forum. Don't need your ****.

I don't have a problem with you.

 

[Pratters]

Botham having 27 five-fers is the most amazing thing imo. Had 19 by his 49th test. Seriously mad stat. Murali had 17 by his 49th.

Murali was actually not very good in the first 4-5 years of his career when he played his first 30 odd tests. It was only after he started with his doosra that he became the wicket taker that he did.

Edit: Murali played 133 tests and took around 50 5 wicket hauls in his last 85 tests or so. Crazy **** wicket taker, Murali was.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Possibly not in absolute terms, but in reality I think the flaws were part and parcel of what made him so great in his pomp

Exactly, though not sure you can put his back injuries down to his lifestyle. They were just wear and tear and he was one of the unfortunate ones who got it badly. Not his fault the England selectors kept picking him for years after he was past it.

 

[weldone]

From 29th January 1993 to 6th January 2011 (close to 18 years), Sachin Tendulkar scored 13,534 runs at an average of 59.62. How is that for a peak?

Sorry for going completely off-topic here, but there is a real nice discovery hidden there. He'd still be the highest run-getter of all-time if he had a career like that!

Sachin Tendulkar WAG!

 

[Teja.]

I think apart from the tedious debate on whether Botham's longevity where he was not very good adds to his legacy or not the more interesting question here is Botham's and Snow's performances relative to the quality of the sides they were facing. Not sure if I am wrong but Botham (unlike the other great all-rounders of the era) was pretty sub-par vs. the WI and benefited greatly from test cricket bereft of WSC talent during the late seventies which boosts his numbers a bit though I rate Botham very highly.

On the other hand, I think raw averages do Snow a bit of an injustice and I reckon him and Roberts are borderline ATG bowlers and he's England's greatest pacer after Trueman IMO with close competition from Willis.

 

[harsh.ag]

I think apart from the tedious debate on whether Botham's longevity where he was not very good adds to his legacy or not the more interesting question here is Botham's and Snow's performances relative to the quality of the sides they were facing. Not sure if I am wrong but Botham (unlike the other great all-rounders of the era) was pretty sub-par vs. the WI and benefited greatly from test cricket bereft of WSC talent during the late seventies which boosts his numbers a bit though I rate Botham very highly.

On the other hand, I think raw averages do Snow a bit of an injustice and I reckon him and Roberts are borderline ATG bowlers and he's England's greatest pacer after Trueman IMO with close competition from Willis.

Agree on most of this post.

Roberts ATG for me. Larwood and Trueman ahead of Snow.

 

[smash84]

Snow,

 

[Teja.]

Roberts ATG for me. Larwood and Trueman ahead of Snow.

Yeah, I meant chronologically. Snow is the best pacer England has had post-Trueman, that is.

 

[weldone]

I think apart from the tedious debate on whether Botham's longevity where he was not very good adds to his legacy or not the more interesting question here is Botham's and Snow's performances relative to the quality of the sides they were facing. Not sure if I am wrong but Botham (unlike the other great all-rounders of the era) was pretty sub-par vs. the WI and benefited greatly from test cricket bereft of WSC talent during the late seventies which boosts his numbers a bit though I rate Botham very highly.

On the other hand, I think raw averages do Snow a bit of an injustice and I reckon him and Roberts are borderline ATG bowlers and he's England's greatest pacer after Trueman IMO with close competition from Willis.

pretty much

 

[Days of Grace]

"Peaks" are a great subject for discussion but not a lot of use in objective terms - I think anything less than a series is a bit pointless, else you'd end up with people like Narendra Hirwani and Bob Massie, but its a worthwhile concept over a a series (Larwood, McDonald, Tyson and Iverson all spring to mind) but then it would be a different answer over two years or any other multiple - at the veteran end maybe Courtney Walsh would find his slot - if you're going to fix on five years then Waqar is possibly the man - but if you want to judge all bowlers over the same given period then maybe you can produce a worthwhile means of comparison - one for chasingthedon methinks!

Or for me!

Check this out. I prefer to have match peaks and give extra points for how many years a 25 or 50 match peak was.

The wickets taken and averages have been adjusted. On the far right are the points for the 25 and 50 match peaks and the total peak points.

 

[Days of Grace]

I think apart from the tedious debate on whether Botham's longevity where he was not very good adds to his legacy or not the more interesting question here is Botham's and Snow's performances relative to the quality of the sides they were facing. Not sure if I am wrong but Botham (unlike the other great all-rounders of the era) was pretty sub-par vs. the WI and benefited greatly from test cricket bereft of WSC talent during the late seventies which boosts his numbers a bit though I rate Botham very highly.

On the other hand, I think raw averages do Snow a bit of an injustice and I reckon him and Roberts are borderline ATG bowlers and he's England's greatest pacer after Trueman IMO with close competition from Willis.

This is an excellent point. You could argue though that the Botham of 1977-1979 would have destroyed any opposition.

Snow's greatest achievement was his wicket haul against a very strong West Indian batting lineup playing on their own tracks in 1967/68.

 

[smash84]

Looks like a good sheet DoG, but I can't seem to locate the column headings?

 

[fredfertang]

Snow's greatest achievement was his wicket haul against a very strong West Indian batting lineup playing on their own tracks in 1967/68.

Possibly, but not as memorable as his Ashes winning performance in 70/71 - was effectively a lone spearhead as well

 

[Days of Grace]

Looks like a good sheet DoG, but I can't seem to locate the column headings?

That's because there aren't any, sorry. Quick cut and paste job. You can understand each column though, right?

 

[Days of Grace]

Possibly, but not as memorable as his Ashes winning performance in 70/71 - was effectively a lone spearhead as well

Yes, it was more memorable because it was the Ashes, but the West Indian batting lineup was much stronger than the Australians of 70/71 who were going through a period of transition.