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Thread: Era of aggressive Test fields over - Dhoni

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Era of aggressive Test fields over - Dhoni

    As someone who has constantly criticized Dhoni about some of his field placings, I thought this article was interesting:

    Australia in India 2012-13 : Era of aggressive Test fields over - MS Dhoni | Cricket News | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo
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    "If you rotate [the strike] four times, you get four runs and [on] those four runs, you can get them out as many times."

    This makes no sense whatsoever

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    haha......love this reply from Dhoni though

    "When asked whether surfaces like those in Delhi were right for Test cricket, Dhoni's reply was sardonic and also contained his response to past criticism of his captaincy. "Well, you'll have to answer what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' because your opinion really counts ... When four fast bowlers play, it becomes strategy, when three spinners or four spinners play, it becomes a bad wicket.""
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Would love to see the Indian batsmen playing against their own spinners with Dhoni's captaincy, and see if he still manages the field in a similar way, or if it's just because of other nations' lack of experience against spin that he preys upon.


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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    haha......love this reply from Dhoni though

    "When asked whether surfaces like those in Delhi were right for Test cricket, Dhoni's reply was sardonic and also contained his response to past criticism of his captaincy. "Well, you'll have to answer what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' because your opinion really counts ... When four fast bowlers play, it becomes strategy, when three spinners or four spinners play, it becomes a bad wicket.""
    Yeah great quote.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Would love to see the Indian batsmen playing against their own spinners with Dhoni's captaincy, and see if he still manages the field in a similar way, or if it's just because of other nations' lack of experience against spin that he preys upon.
    Let's just imagine, his current Indian team facing an Indian team with Murali Kartik and Amit Mishra as its lead spinners. On this track.
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    The only concession I'll make to that article is when he says that batting styles have changed drastically over the years and you have to take that into account while setting fields to avoid hemorrhaging runs. It is absolutely no excuse for the prematureness with which he presses those strategies into action 90% of the time.

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    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyanash89 View Post
    "If you rotate [the strike] four times, you get four runs and [on] those four runs, you can get them out as many times."

    This makes no sense whatsoever
    I think what he means is that if a batsman takes 4 balls to score 4 runs, you get 4 chances to get him out before the scoreboard moves up by 4. But if he hits a boundary, you only get that 1 ball to get him out. It is not great logic, but at least it is easy to see where he comes from.
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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    It isn't always true, but on the whole, forcing people to score runs by hitting boundries is surely more risky than giving up singles...

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    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    Defensive fields are over?

    Someone tell Baz before the day's play starts.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Yeah I think he's right. Well, he sometimes overdoes it. But he definitely has a better handle on it than most commentators.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Much better reasoning than you get from commentators too. Seems reasonable to me that it usually takes more risk to score four singles than it does to score a boundary, and you can see there's some thought going into what field each batsman least wants to see. I just find it more convincing than the assertion that he should let a batsman get four for his favourite shot because "send a message".

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Didn't this all begin, or at least get some real momentum, during the 2005 Ashes when Vaughan put sweepers to piss Hayden and some other batsman off when they hit their favourite shot and got a single?

    Now obviously Dhoni is playing in India not England so he has more spread fields, and so he has taken it to another level (along with many other captains), but the basic premise of 4 singles is better than a boundary started with Vaughan if I remember correctly.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Didn't this all begin, or at least get some real momentum, during the 2005 Ashes when Vaughan put sweepers to piss Hayden and some other batsman off when they hit their favourite shot and got a single?

    Now obviously Dhoni is playing in India not England so he has more spread fields, and so he has taken it to another level (along with many other captains), but the basic premise of 4 singles is better than a boundary started with Vaughan if I remember correctly.
    He got a lot of abuse for it too. The hindsight story over here is that Vaughan's innovative captaincy was huge positive for England, so it's weird that when you see the games now during rain breaks, the commentators are all over him for putting the men back too soon.

    I think part of it is just doing something different, forcing batsmen to compile runs in ways they aren't used to. It could be that the next generation of batsmen can run hard between the wickets but struggle to pick the gaps against a more attacking field.

    It's also interesting that Dhoni was one of the first to make big changes to his game so that he could keep scoring quickly against ultra-defensive fields in ODIs. He's really pushing the boundary-riders strategy but at the same time adapting his own batting to better deal with it. He's one batsman I think captains should set much more aggressive fields to early on, especially in ODIs.

  15. #15
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    I remember UC that you were a big Dhoni fan early on as captain - say 2008-2010. Do you still have a strong opinion?

    I probably went too extreme both ways. I thought he was brilliant and the best thing since sliced break and then after the third test in South Africa I threw my toys out of the pram with his defensive field and gifting Kallis and Boucher runs in the 3rd innings and hated his captaincy.

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