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Thread: New Zealand doom and gloom thread

  1. #346
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Brent Arnel...I'm sorry I drew this thread so low with my mentioning of Butler and Franklin...but jesus.

    Nah I think Butler is pretty decent line and length tbh.

    Of course we could get some real bowlers like Henry, Wheeler, Milne etc but we don't really need the extra bowling and we do need the batting.

    Just someone who could hang around or something. I dunno.

    Corey Anderson?

    That other allrounder who's name eludes me right now?

  2. #347
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Bowling talent stocks is the best we've ever had.

    The gap between our best batting talents in the team and those on the bench is one of the biggest we've ever had.

    Look, as I've just said in the tour thread, England would have killed pretty much anybody with the way they bowled last night. We don't have anyone better than Taylor, KW, McCullum, Brownlie et al. In fact, they're probably some of the best set up batsmen to play test cricket we've produced.

    The problem starts at the top with the openers. You cannot possibly expect to reach 200, let alone 400, every innings if you're two down for less than ten every innings.

    And we have no truly test ready openers. Rutherford is in early, and he has ability, but he isn't going to 171 it every series. Fulton is limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Serious question:

    What will Bracewell add to the attack?
    Quality
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    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  3. #348
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Bowling talent stocks is the best we've ever had.
    The gap between our best batting talents in the team and those on the bench is one of the biggest we've ever had.
    Eh, not sure I agree with this. We had an excellent selection of quick bowlers in the 1990's. Cairns, Nash, Allott, Doull, O'Connor, Wilson (many thought he'd be the pick of the bunch until the lure of an All Black jersey proved too much). Sadly, only Cairns came close to fulfilling his potential...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    [ Look, as I've just said in the tour thread, England would have killed pretty much anybody with the way they bowled last night. We don't have anyone better than Taylor, KW, McCullum, Brownlie et al. In fact, they're probably some of the best set up batsmen to play test cricket we've produced.

    The problem starts at the top with the openers. You cannot possibly expect to reach 200, let alone 400, every innings if you're two down for less than ten every innings.

    And we have no truly test ready openers. Rutherford is in early, and he has ability, but he isn't going to 171 it every series. Fulton is limited.

    Quality.
    I sort of agree with what you're saying. Broad and Anderson deserve all the praise being heaped upon them by the cricketing media. They were magnificent, allying pace to admirable control of seam and swing. Broad produced the kind of Ambrose-esque spell that demonstrates why England supporters have every right to be frustrated with his career average of 30. His delivery to Rutherford in particular was sensational.

    But no test batting lineup worthy of the name should be reduced to 29/6, especially on a pitch that was offering only modest help to the bowlers. The fact that this is the third time this year that New Zealand has lost it's first 6 wickets for less than 40 runs aptly displays the gravity of the situation. I agree that there aren't really any plausible replacements for the current side, but that's not an encouraging thought.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 19-05-2013 at 10:23 PM.
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  4. #349
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Ryder's the only one I'd confidently say would improve this current line up. Who knows what the **** he's up to. Any chance and I'd have him on the tour to Bangladesh at the end of the year. This is pretty much our best team outside that. We desperately need the development of Sodhi to go swimmingly. Martin/Vettori/Williamson isn't going to cut it if we want to be a top team.

    That being said, I rate our ODI squad for the Champions trophy. I really don't think we're far from some good results there.


  5. #350
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Eh, not sure I agree with this. We had an excellent selection of quick bowlers in the 1990's. Cairns, Nash, Allott, Doull, O'Connor, Wilson (many thought he'd be the pick of the bunch until the lure of an All Black jersey proved too much). Sadly, only Cairns came close to fulfilling his potential...



    I sort of agree with what you're saying. Broad and Anderson deserve all the praise being heaped upon them by the cricketing media. They were magnificent, allying pace to admirable control of seam and swing. Broad produced the kind of Ambrose-esque spell that demonstrates why England supporters have every right to be frustrated with his career average of 30. His delivery to Rutherford in particular was sensational.

    But no test batting lineup worthy of the name should be reduced to 29/6, especially on a pitch that was offering only modest help to the bowlers. The fact that this is the third time this year that New Zealand has lost it's first 6 wickets for less than 40 runs aptly displays the gravity of the situation. I agree that there aren't really any plausible replacements for the current side, but that's not an encouraging thought.
    Southee/Boult/Bracewell/Wagner/Milne/Wheeler/Henry/McClenaghan/Bennett plus new kids on the block like Duffy/Bartlett/Verma/Mathieson/Small are better imo. Talent depth obvz, and this is just from watching them bowl so is quite subjective. I was pretty damn young when I watched the 1990s class too so I am probably biased.

    Who knows, Gillespie might even have one last hot streak in him.

    As for the batting, well...

    @Mike: We can get away without a test standard spinner. It isn't ideal but it isn't crippling outside of non-subcontinental turners and the subcontinent sides are masters of playing spin anyway unless you have an ATG or are India trying to play Swann/Panesar.

    Having two dodgy openers is what is killing us because our 23 year old number three is in at 1 for zilch almost every innings, and our best batsman comes in a few minutes later.

    The batting depth outside the test squad is appalling. While Watling becoming a decent player was a complete and pleasant surprise the likes of Flynn and Broom need to copy his example otherwise we will be giving test debuts to guys like Latham and Young who are way too inexperienced atm and lets face it, haven't shown they're the next Ross Taylor, Jesse Ryder or KW to date.

  6. #351
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    I think NZ should just lure Ajinkya Rahane and Rohit Sharma, give them citizenship and get them to open. The whole world will be better off. Efficiency through free trade. Now why are we against that?
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  7. #352
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    I think NZ should just lure Ajinkya Rahane and Rohit Sharma, give them citizenship and get them to open. The whole world will be better off. Efficiency through free trade. Now why are we against that?
    What would we trade for them though? They're certainly not getting Southee!

  8. #353
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    What would we trade for them though? They're certainly not getting Southee!
    They're India's backups, so you'd only need to give them Bracewell and Butler.
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  9. #354
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    What would we trade for them though? They're certainly not getting Southee!
    You don't need to trade players. Both Rahane and Rohit will jump at the chance of being NZ citizens (provided you do the same for their families). Just pay for them to buy out their contracts with BCCI. Of course, BCCI may make a motion to ban NZC from cricket in the next ICC meet, but that's a risk you should be willing to take

  10. #355
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Tempted to dig up that cricket trading thread

  11. #356
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    They're India's backups, so you'd only need to give them Bracewell and Butler.
    Hmmmm...

  12. #357
    State 12th Man Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post

    Having two dodgy openers is what is killing us because our 23 year old number three is in at 1 for zilch almost every innings, and our best batsman comes in a few minutes later.
    This this this this this!!!

    Williamson/Taylor/Brownlie/McCullum must think "here we ****ing go again...". I guess that's what makes the SL win so outstanding. Ross and Kane figured they may as well open and forget about the openers.

  13. #358
    State 12th Man Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I've also been begrudgingly impressed by Wagner, especially in this latest test. To give him his due, he's seen his opportunity, and hasn't given Bracewell a chance since. Can't ask for much more than that.
    And you know what? Maybe he'll get better as he becomes more comfortable in the set up? He did that in FC cricket didn't he? Not that standout until the last couple of seasons when he was ripping it up.

  14. #359
    State 12th Man Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    So I think all pretensions that Vettori would not be a useful addition can now be dropped.
    Just like Metallica said, "You know it's sad but true".

    Kind of like how Fulton and Rutherford are there because there is no one else that would obviously do a better job.

    Except Vettori has an okay record.

  15. #360
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    If Vettori came in as a bowler he wouldn't add anything to what we've got. He'd have to take a top 6 spot otherwise he's bumping out a pacer.
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