The best at their peak?

[smash84]

Hate to be boring ....?

as usual

 

[DriveClub]

1999 onwards, Kallis average 62 over 123 tests.

Sanga averages 70+ since he gave up gloves in '06 I think, that's a pretty high peak I'd say.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Amir's peak in England

 

[zaremba]

Are we talking about an extended peak over a period of months and years or those matches where a player hit his zenith?

If it's the latter it has to be Curtly Ambrose as a bowler. The man was almost literally unplayable when the force was with him and the wind was at his back. His spell to reduce an England chasing just 194 for victory at Port of Spain in 94 to 46ao was as relentless as it was magnificent.

& BC Lara as a batsman, obvz. Preternaturally gifted and, at this perihelion, awesome in the literal sense of inspiring admiration (amongst those watching) and fear (amongst those bowling to him).

One of those Brumby posts that makes you just not bother to try to contribute.

All I can say is AWTA, nothing else much to say.

In the runners-up spots,

Chimpy: at his best he had an unstoppability about him that was nothing short of scary

Pigeon: I was at Lord's in 2005 for his spell of 5 for not very many, and it was unstoppability incarnate

 

[zaremba]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

 

[Jacknife]

Would add Ian Botham to that list. For the first 5 years of his career he was arguably the greatest cricketer to ever grace the field.

Yes, Botham is one of the players I had in mind that the words 'at their peak' gets used a lot and like you say, when looking at those years a case could be made for him being the greatest all-round player ever, maybe behind WG by the sounds of it

 

[morgieb]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

Other batsmen were too ****

But wow, that seems awesome.

 

[smash84]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

wow.....that is awesome

Reliance ICC Player Rankings

Reliance ICC Player Rankings

Ponting has the best post war peak (according to this ranking) after Hutton. Might impressive. Although he is a shadow of his former self now

 

[Howe_zat]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

Superb.

 

[hang on]

very interesting...about the good doctor. would be interested in knowing more about how much he pretty much invented modern batsmanship, and whether that conferred a significant advantage on him relative to the others. this is apropos another conversation on another thread about it being harder to follow a paradigm shift in a sport or pretty much any endeavour purely as a consequence of more competition and more awareness of skills required etc.

 

[smash84]

very interesting...about the good doctor. would be interested in knowing more about how much he pretty much invented modern batsmanship, and whether that conferred a significant advantage on him relative to the others. this is apropos another conversation on another thread about it being harder to follow a paradigm shift in a sport or pretty much any endeavour purely as a consequence of more competition and more awareness of skills required etc.

So is that true about reverse swing too???

 

[Howe_zat]

Once you account for the minnows it's really not that much better than his overall career stats. Christ, he's incredibly reliant on his home pitches.

Says a mite about his career stats, eh?

As for the bolded part, well, that must be why touring sides have found it impossible to bat in Sri Lanka since he retired.

 

[hang on]

So is that true about reverse swing too???

reverse swing would be a bit of a paradigm shift too. and so, when first encountered, it could have mystified a lot players. and is therefore a potent weapon in a fastbowler's arsenal. and then more batsmen get used to it and then start playing it better. and so eventually becomes a less potent weapon. simplistic example. not saying it is not a great weapon even now but imagine facing it the first time!

 

[smash84]

if anything there dont seem to be too many good exponents of reverse swing around so whenever you see somebody doing it decently they start getting wickets

 

[bagapath]

all those aggressive cricketers richards, gilchrist, botham, kapil, waqar, ambrose, lillee, greenidge were unstoppable when in form. they could turn a test match around in a matter of few overs.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

It's a shame that we cannot award reputation points on this forum. There are occasions when Mr. Z outdoes himself; this post is one such example!

 

[The Sean]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

Mr Z right at his peak here - absolutely wonderful stuff.

 

[fredfertang]

A most compelling skeleton argument Mr Z

 

[hang on]

Once you account for the minnows it's really not that much better than his overall career stats. Christ, he's incredibly reliant on his home pitches.

he was pretty good away too. his stats are better than those of warne's in england, south africa, the west indies, and india.

 

[bagapath]

On reflection it is impossible to look past WG Grace in 1871.

In all first-class matches in 1871, a total of 17 centuries were scored and WG Grace scored 10 of them. Please consider for a moment about what a ridiculous statistic that is.

His run-scoring aggregate for the season was 2,739; the next best was 1,068. Grace also averaged virtually double what the next best batsman averaged.

Oh and Grace also took 79 wickets at 17, which is to say about 61 points lower than his batting average that season.

That is dominance-at-peak of a kind which can never have been seen - in any sport - before or since.

We can't help regarding Grace as a comically fat old man with an enormous stomach and a silly beard, but that's really just an accident of the history of photography: just about all the pictures we see of him are from the arse end of a ridiculously long career, 3 decades or more after his 1871 annus mirabilis. But in his un-photographed youth he was quite the athlete (famously winning the national 440 yards hurdles title in 1866, which is virtually impossible to imagine given his portly appearance in the photographs taken in his autumn years). I can't help thinking that if there were more photos of the great man in his youth, we'd tend to take him more seriously as what he quite possibly was, namely the greatest player in the history of the game.

But whether or not he eclipses Bradman or (hah!) Tendulkar as the greatest player ever when judged over an entire career, as for "dominance at peak", well, you can forget about the competition. The Grace of 1871 remains head and shoulders above them all.

bang on. how could we forget the greatest cricketer of all time? great post zaremba.