Can Imran Tahir make SA No.1?

[subshakerz]

I was wondering recently that with all the talk of England vs. India being the battle for No.1, people seem to be skipping SA, which is strange given that SA have been unbeaten against India/England for the last five years or so. My impression is that if SA had beaten England and India at home in their last series rather than drawing, they might well have been up for contention. The common feature of both series was that SA in the end were unable to bowl England/India out on the last day due to an over reliance on Steyn, along with Smith's defensive captaincy.

Given this situation, could the inclusion of Imran Tahir be a game changer? He's an aggressive leg spinner, the kind SA havent had since their reentry. He had a terrific World Cup, and his first class record is impressive, especially the strike rate for a spinner. With him instead of the defensive Paul Harris, could SA finally have solved their puzzle. After all, there's a massive difference between a bowler who takes 2-3 wickets a test on average vs. one who takes 3-4. They already have the world's best bowler and all-rounder, and an in-form batting top 6. Will Tahir be able to take the pressure off Steyn to give their attack the extra bite they've been missing? Can he make them No.1?

 

[Anku31]

I was wondering recently that with all the talk of England vs. India being the battle for No.1, people seem to be skipping SA, which is strange given that SA have been unbeaten against India/England for the last five years or so. My impression is that if SA had beaten England and India at home in their last series rather than drawing, they might well have been up for contention. The common feature of both series was that SA in the end were unable to bowl England/India out on the last day due to an over reliance on Steyn, along with Smith's defensive captaincy.

Given this situation, could the inclusion of Imran Tahir be a game changer? He's an aggressive leg spinner, the kind SA havent had since their reentry. He had a terrific World Cup, and his first class record is impressive, especially the strike rate for a spinner. With him instead of the defensive Paul Harris, could SA finally have solved their puzzle. After all, there's a massive difference between a bowler who takes 2-3 wickets a test on average vs. one who takes 3-4. They already have the world's best bowler and all-rounder, and an in-form batting top 6. Will Tahir be able to take the pressure off Steyn to give their attack the extra bite they've been missing? Can he make them No.1?

Pretty early to say.Tahir has just started his international career.Yes,he had been doing really well in FC cricket & deserved a chance long ago.
But grabbing the no.1 spot is more of a team effort rather than depending on individual players.Although,you do need to have match winners who can stand up for you any time.
And yes,it's time to replace Harris with Tahir.Harris has been more of a containing bowler rather than a wicket taking bowler.Botha is not much of a test player but still he could have played more tests ahead of Harris.But as for now now,it's mandatory that Tahir makes his test debut.

 

[Furball]

People are skipping over South Africa because they've been crap since winning in Australia.

 

[vcs]

People are skipping over South Africa because they've been crap since winning in Australia.

The FTP is unfair on them, because they play a lot fewer matches than England, India and Australia. I think people don't take into account how good they were in 2008, when evaluating where they should rank among the Test teams, which is a tad unfair.

 

[wpdavid]

I was wondering recently that with all the talk of England vs. India being the battle for No.1, people seem to be skipping SA, which is strange given that SA have been unbeaten against India/England for the last five years or so. My impression is that if SA had beaten England and India at home in their last series rather than drawing, they might well have been up for contention. The common feature of both series was that SA in the end were unable to bowl England/India out on the last day due to an over reliance on Steyn, along with Smith's defensive captaincy.

Given this situation, could the inclusion of Imran Tahir be a game changer? He's an aggressive leg spinner, the kind SA havent had since their reentry. He had a terrific World Cup, and his first class record is impressive, especially the strike rate for a spinner. With him instead of the defensive Paul Harris, could SA finally have solved their puzzle. After all, there's a massive difference between a bowler who takes 2-3 wickets a test on average vs. one who takes 3-4. They already have the world's best bowler and all-rounder, and an in-form batting top 6. Will Tahir be able to take the pressure off Steyn to give their attack the extra bite they've been missing? Can he make them No.1?

Perhaps that also depends on how long Smith & Kallis keep playing test cricket. Kallis in particular has been around for ages, and may well feel that enough is enough before long. Of course they aren't the only talents in their top 6, but they are a huge presence.

 

[Furball]

The FTP is unfair on them, because they play a lot fewer matches than England, India and Australia. I think people don't take into account how good they were in 2008, when evaluating where they should rank among the Test teams, which is a tad unfair.

How good they were in 2008 has very little to do with how good they are now. England and.India arr quite clearly the top 2 teams in the world.

FTR since 2008 South Africa have played all of Australia, England and India at home and failed to win any of the series.

 

[vcs]

How good they were in 2008 has very little to do with how good they are now. England and.India arr quite clearly the top 2 teams in the world.

FTR since 2008 South Africa have played all of Australia, England and India at home and failed to win any of the series.

Strongly disagree.. performances in 2008 should definitely count even if the rankings don't do it. I always evaluate teams by an entire cycle of results against everyone home and away as long as all those series have occurred within a reasonable time-frame (4-5 years). I will put SA above England if England fail to beat India.

 

[Furball]

Strongly disagree.. performances in 2008 should definitely count even if the rankings don't do it. I always evaluate teams by an entire cycle of results against everyone home and away as long as all those series have occurred within a reasonable time-frame (4-5 years). I will put SA above England if England fail to beat India.

The England side beaten by South Africa in 2008 contained Michael Vaughan, Paul Collingwood, Andrew Flintoff, Tim Ambrose and Ryan Sidebottom.

 

[vcs]

But the SA team is mostly unchanged. We cannot reset the ranking system every time some team has a mass retirement cycle..

 

[Howe_zat]

I'm actually going to have the cake and eat it here by claiming SA's performances in 07-08 are still relevant but England's are much less so, because it's important to think of what you perceive to be the "current" team.

I've explained before that I think the current England side only really took shape when Flintoff retired.

South Africa, however, really did assume what it is now in 2007-08 when Steyn, Morkel, Amla and De Villiers all started to come into their own. Smith also embarked on a brilliant run of form.

Since late 2008, the only changes to the side have really been Smith losing his way a bit, wondering what to do with Prince and Duminy, and struggling to replace Ntini. Those I would consider fairly minor and it's largely the same team that brought their run of success a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, they've struggled to win big series but they've still only lost one series in that time too.

 

[Rush]

Perhaps that also depends on how long Smith & Kallis keep playing test cricket. Kallis in particular has been around for ages, and may well feel that enough is enough before long. Of course they aren't the only talents in their top 6, but they are a huge presence.

Smith is 30. He'll be around for long.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

They have a quality side, i think the top 3 are a long way ahead of the rest at present and you could see them all have a run as number 1 over the next few years. I don't think any of these 3 have a great side like Australia did so won't go on to dominate which is probably a good thing anyway as it will make it more interesting.

 

[Howe_zat]

Really don't think their top three is much to shout about as long as Alviro is there, to be honest. They've a vastly better middle order.

 

[Furball]

South Africa will never reach number one in the world while politicians prevent South Africa selecting their strongest XI.

 

[Furball]

But the SA team is mostly unchanged. We cannot reset the ranking system every time some team has a mass retirement cycle..

Correct, and they're also winning fewer series than they were in 2007/08. Which suggests that either the opposition is getting better or South Africa are getting worse.

 

[Howe_zat]

Correct, and they're also winning fewer series than they were in 2007/08. Which suggests that either the opposition is getting better or South Africa are getting worse.

I think it's pretty reasonable to go with the former, considering the teams SA played during each period.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The spinner is the only weak link in the current SA side (apart from Smith's captaincy). With Tahir in the side they will be complete, although another quick of Steyn's (or even Morkel's) calibre wouldn't be bad.

 

[weldone]

They have a quality side, i think the top 3 are a long way ahead of the rest at present and you could see them all have a run as number 1 over the next few years. I don't think any of these 3 have a great side like Australia did so won't go on to dominate which is probably a good thing anyway as it will make it more interesting.

Really don't think their top three is much to shout about as long as Alviro is there, to be honest. They've a vastly better middle order.

Ha ha, he was talking about the top 3 teams, tbh ...Not SA's top 3 in the batting order

...reminds me of the 'whoosh award' or whatever Richard came up with

 

[Howe_zat]

Considering trying to pretend I knew what he meant. Gonna take the award though.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Don't think Tahir is that great. Their main problem has been the weak lower order batting, which is why they always collapse and choke.