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Seems fairly obvious to me...
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Is Vettori's ineffectiveness a problem for NZ?
- Thread starter Blocky
- Start date
NasserFan207
International Vice-Captain
He's become a better, more experienced version of Paul Harris or Ashley Giles these days.
Still, thats an important role to have. He holds up one end well and will usually pick up wickets here and there. NZ's problem is at the other end, anyone can see that.
Still, thats an important role to have. He holds up one end well and will usually pick up wickets here and there. NZ's problem is at the other end, anyone can see that.
Flem274*
123/5
?sdrawkcab gnitirw ew era yhw
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
?retlif eht diova nac ew naem taht seod tub ,wonk t'nod I
Flem274*
123/5
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
99*
International Debutant
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
At least from a New Zealand perspective we'll probably look back at the Vettori era longingly. Do you remember how dire things were before Vettori's arrival? A decade of Dipak Patel, Shane Thomson and Matthew Hart. I've got a bad feeling that once Vettori retires New Zealand's spin options will revert back to their characteristic level of ineptitude.
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ringo16
Cricket Spectator
I am of the Vettori generation - can't remember watching cricket when he wasn't in the team. It'll be strange when he finally goes (though I was more attached to Fleming). That said, he's only 31. He seems to want to give up the captaincy early, but I hope he's got a good 5 more years as a senior player.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Very much so. Vettori averaged around 24 when bowling with Bond. Admittedly, this was helped by an 11-for versus Zimbabwe, but even when you take that out, his figures are still substantially better than his career record (averaged 28 v Australia, 23 v Bangladesh, 29 v Pakistan, 23 v Sri Lanka, 25 v West Indies and an anomalous 71 on a grassy track v South Africa). But the same is true for Chris Martin, and probably most other bowlers that had the good fortune of catching Bond in between injury breaks.
I can't really see the logic behind Vettori hurting New Zealand's performances. It's a fact that he's our best spinner by a long way, both in terms of accuracy and in terms of wicket taking ability. If we had better bowlers, they'd be bowling more overs and taking wickets. We don't, and I hardly see how Vettori holding up an end and stopping the batsmen from completely getting away is hurting the performances of our seamers. The problem is that in the type of conditions we've seen on this Indian tour, our quicks simply don't have the pace and control to take wickets once the new ball stops swinging.
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Blaze 18
Banned
Is he ? I don't think it is that clear-cut even if you are only talking about ODI spinners.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
He's certainly been very excellent over the last 6 years or so. Since the 2003 World Cup, he's averaged around 26 at an economy rate of under 4.
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Blaze 18
Banned
I agree with this post to an extent. I have always thought that Harbhajan Singh and Daniel Vettori are the two worst bowlers in the three hundred wicket club by a distance. Having said that, New Zealand don't seem to be having a better spinner in their ranks, so I don't see how he can be dropped. Also, he brings a lot more to the table than your average specialist spinner : he is a handy number seven and the captain of the side. Most importantly, he always gives it his all. He is a bit like Anil Kumble in that aspect; always prepared to plough on and on, even on the most unforgiving and unhelpful pitches.
Himannv
International Coach
Post reported.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Suggesting Vettori should be dropped is madness given he averages 40+ with the bat over the last five years. He's definitely amongst New Zealand's best four Test batsmen at the moment - he'd make the side even if he never bowled again.
The question though is over whether he should be given such an integral role with the ball when it's clear that it's not working very well. Personally I wouldn't change much with the way he's used but I would wake up and face facts - that he's not a very good Test bowler.
Blaze 18
Banned
There is no denying that; but is he one of the five best ODI bowlers of the generation ? I don't think so. In my opinion, he would struggle to make the top ten ODI bowlers of his generation. If we are only talking spinners then that is different; Still, top five ? I am not sure.