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Thread: Can a bowler who averages 30+ be considered as greats ?

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    Can a bowler who averages 30+ be considered as greats ?

    I have often wondered about the status of bowlers like Lee and Harbhajan who both have 300+ wickets, but also average 30 or more. Can a bowler who averages 30+ be *great* ? Are the two mentioned bowlers great ?

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    Can bowlers who average*
    Last edited by Avada Kedavra; 09-12-2009 at 12:16 PM.

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    No

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    State 12th Man 0RI0N's Avatar
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    If you call Harbhajan and Lee Great bowlers then
    you cannot call Murali and Marshall great.
    You would have to find another word to describe Murali and Marshall.
    Great is a word that get's thrown about too frequently as Sir Garfield Sobers said.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    I have often wondered about the status of bowlers like Lee and Harbhajan who both have 300+ wickets, but also average 30 or more. Can a bowler who averages 30+ be *great* ? Are the two mentioned bowlers great ?
    No. They are good bowlers who have served their sides well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0RI0N View Post
    NO
    If you call Harbhajan and Lee Great bowlers then
    you cannot call Murali and Marshall great.
    You would have to find another word to describe Murali and Marshall.
    Great is a word that get's thrown about too frequently as Sir Garfield Sobers said.
    That's true. I don't think Lee and Harbhajan are greats either. However guys like Kapil, Botham and Kumble are seen as greats, and their averages are just less than 30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    That's true. I don't think Lee and Harbhajan are greats either. However guys like Kapil, Botham and Kumble are seen as greats, and their averages are just less than 30.
    Kapil and Botham also scored plenty of runs with the bat, and Kumble didn't do a bad job with the willow either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakester1288 View Post
    Kapil and Botham also scored plenty of runs with the bat, and Kumble didn't do a bad job with the willow either.
    I can understand Kapil and Botham. But are you telling me that Kumble is considered great because of his batting ?

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    Re: The original question, I dont think it is impossible but I cant think of any player off the top of my head. It is a pretty big barrier to climb but it may be possible.

    30+ is different to less than 30 but Larwood is an undoubted great and he averaged 28.35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Larwood is an undoubted great and he averaged 28.35.
    Some do seem to doubt his greatness, probably because they've not read fredfertang's posts on the point carefully enough.

    And the 28.35 is pretty good considering that he had to bowl on flat pitches against some awesome Crim batting. And all that whining must have been distracting as well...

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    Some do seem to doubt his greatness, probably because they've not read fredfertang's posts on the point carefully enough.

    And the 28.35 is pretty good considering that he had to bowl on flat pitches against some awesome Crim batting. And all that whining must have been distracting as well...
    Link to post?

    I dont need to be pursuaded of his 'greatness' but Im interested in reading fredfertang's perspective.

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    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    cbf to check but didn't Beefy wind up averaging over 30

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    No to both questions in the OP.
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    Botham averages 28-29, not 30. That's why I said just under 30.

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    Botham, Kapil Dev and Kumble have some claim to greatness for reasns that have nothing to do with their batting. They're the exceptions that prove why you should treat averages as useful guides but not the be-all and end-all.
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