*Official* Pakistan in Australia

[Nate]

Sami takes six in the Domestic Final, as the opposition are rolled for 66.

But you know, he's dire, etc.

 

[Xuhaib]

Sami takes six in the Domestic Final, as the opposition are rolled for 66.

But you know, he's dire, etc.

believe it or not it was an unreal spell if it would have been anyone other then Sami I would have been creaming my pants. He usually produces this once every 5 years.

 

[pasag]

Anyone else pumped for the series? Have a feeling we'll probably see some controversy rivaling India 08 or Ovalgate especially with some beneath the surface tensions with Australia's refusal to go to Pakistan but the cricket should be fantastic. Pity the first day of the Boxing Day Test is on a Sat though.

 

[Jono]

Don't think any Pakistanis would get fired up enough. In terms of on the field, they don't get as pissed off as the Indian players.

We have more angry guys - Zaheer, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Praveen etc.

 

[Xuhaib]

Don't think any Pakistanis would get fired up enough. In terms of on the field, they don't get as pissed off as the Indian players.

We have more angry guys - Zaheer, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Praveen etc.

thats where Shoaib and Afridi will; be missed.

 

[Jono]

Yep, lack of Afridi and Shoaib to give some send-offs.

More chance of Pakistani players fighting with themselves on tour then Australia.

 

[Fusion]

Yep, lack of Afridi and Shoaib to give some send-offs.

More chance of Pakistani players fighting with themselves on tour then Australia.

Yup. The personality make-up of the Pakistani team has changed drastically. These are not the fiery players of the ‘90s. These players are more docile than their predecessors. I actually think the Pakistani and Indian teams have basically switched personalities from the ‘90’s to this decade.

 

[aussie]

SA in the 90s contrary to popular opinion rarely played the 4-man pace attack without a spinner, especially outside home. They usually had one of Symcox, Adams or Boje in the attack, none of them were Haurtiz level. Their two biggest victories in the decade in Pakistan in 97 and India in 2000 came through the vital contributions of both Symcox and Boje.

I have always said Hauritz or Krejza should play in the sub-continent if AUS tours. Even WI of the 80s played Roger Harper a few times in the sub-continent.

Think you are overating Hauritz if you think none of Symocox, Adams or Boje where on par with him. Symocox DEFINATELY was better, Adams had more wicket-taking ability than Hauritz (only thing Hauritz was more accurate than him) while Boje showed by his 5-wicket hauls in IND & SRI that he is like a Giles - who bowls well on turning/wearing pitches on a 5th day. Hauritz to date has not shown that ability in tests - just very good accuracy.

And I'm sure if they had a much better spinner they would have had a better chance of winning a series against Australia and in England, which they didn't.

I doubt that. Looking at SA defeats in ENG 94 & 98. They lost those series due to mistakes they made at crucial points in both series againts ENG - rather than anything special from ENG. SA dominated both those series generally.

If Harris was playing for SA in the 90s it wouldn't have aided them in winning in AUS. He was by no means better than Pat Symocox & Clive Eskeen, Claude Henderson (based on what i seen). The fact that AUS had Warne, made the difference all the time. Since they where many times between 93/94 to 2005/06 (before SA won in 08/09) where the SA pacers ran through AUS batsmen, but then Warne would expose their batsmen vulnerability againts leg-spin - most famously Daryll Cullinan.

Still, against England, SA, WI and NZ, Hauritz can prove more than useful.

SA no - The rest yea. The most Hauritz would do in most occassion is keep it tight - he is not going to get anybody out regularly. Why wouldn't another good seamer be a more wicket-taking threat than Hauritz?.

And modern subcontinent batsmen arent all that flash against such spinners as they dont have the concentration they used to have.

Ha. I could imagine Hauritz bowling to Gambhir & Sehwag for example - they would kill him.

Most test wickets that can break down offer some degree of spin on the fifth day. And we've seen nowadays that spinning wickets aren't exclusive to the subcontinent.

Indeed. AUS would just have to know to analyse the conditions when the play.

- In test matches in Australia for example i would only pick Hauritz in Sydney & the Adelaide road (maybe the MCG at times). Every other pitch AUS can play 4 quicks.

A major risk. Remember all the overrate issues that the WI had in the 80s, do you think that would fly nowadays? And the worst scenario would be having to bring on a part-timer due to the overrate and release pressure at key times in the match. Remember how Ponting lost in India? It's not like Australia's 4-man attack is guaranteed to dismiss the opposition cheaply and quickly like the WI in the 80s.

- The only time AUS really played 4-seamers since the retirement of McGrath/Warne in the 4th Ashes test, the over-rate wasn't really a problem - nor was it in South Africa. They obvious would not get through 90 overs a day regularly or ever - but can get through 80-85 overs which is good enough i'd think.

- The problems Ponting got into during the 4th test in IND was nothing to do with AUS playing 4-seamers since they had Krejza. It was because of a poor overate even with the spinner & Lee being injured. After to tea on the 4th day (i think) & Ponting was sort of forced to bowl part-timers because of this.

The criticism againts Ponting was because some flet AUS where in a potential winnings position & that Ponting was trying to avoid a fine.

- At the moment no - the AUS pace quartet wont run through a side like the WI 4-prong. But i see great potential in that 4-man attack for reasons i have said before to get better a become a real wicket-taking force. Hauritz however is not likely to ever become a great off-spinner - he will always be a fill in spinner.

So AUS rather should build the bowling attack around there strenght - which is the fast-men.

My point is that its a given that a team will face flat, dead wickets more than often nowadays. You need a bowler capable of doing the donkey work of bowling long spells and still managing to take wickets. Similar to what Kaneria did in Napier. If you ask each of your 4-man pace attack to bowl 40-50+ overs expect a total breakdown.

- Yes flat decks are around alot. But as aformentioned, when AUS play tests
they will have to make a judgment Hauritz/Krejza will be NEEDED. The can get away with playing 4-seamers againts most teams in most conditions.

- I see no batting-lineup in the world right now regardless of how flat the pitches are that would bat so well that they would make Hilfenhaus/Bollinger/Siddle/Johnson + Watson have to bowl 40-50 overs for them to bowl them out.

As i said before 3 of those guys (Hilfy, Watson, Siddle) can reverse swing the ball when the conditions get flat. So no issue.

It's better for the captain to have decent options rather than just the same. How often have we seen that the ball gets soft and the batsmen like the pacemen bowling to them. Then a spinner comes on and the batsmen suddenly have to work for it a bit.

Again ball gets soft or roughed up. These guys can reverse swing the ball..(excpet Johnson)

Aus won in SA because of the strength of their 3-man attack (Johnson, Siddle, and Hilfy) and McDonald was pretty useless. You could have traded him for Hauritz and the result would have been the same.

No. Those conditions in SA demanded nothing more than an all-seam attack especially in those first two test. The AUS selectors had the correct idea by picking 4-seamers, its just that McDonald was an idiotic option as a 4th seamer - when blokes like Nannes & Noffke where available after Bollinger got injured.

Hauritz role in SA was done by North. In the 3rd test AUS picked a spinner in McGain in the capetwon test following the idea of judging the pitch since a spinner was needed then. (although some could argue McGain may not have played if North wasn't injured).

The 4th Ashes test was a pretty green wicket which justified the 4-man pace attack. It proved a liability in the next test.

Yes thats why i keep saying the selectors, Ponting & the coach will have to make the judgement call when & where 4-seamers should play vs including a spinner.

I agree to disagree that AUS needed a spinner @ the Oval. But if the argument is "If Harutiz had played - AUS would have won the test & regained the Ashes" - then i toally disagree with that since AUS lost that test due to a ridiculous batting performance in their first innings. Hauritz playing wouldn't have made a difference.

Only in hindsight. On the first day, the wicket looked green and spinners weren't expected to play a part. Goes to show you how spinners can be more useful than you think.

Nah that pitch never was green. Before the test started there was talk ENG may play 4-seamers but on day 1 none of that grass was there. The pitch was slow & got lower as the game progressed, ideally suited for playing a spinner.

 

[Bouncer]

Don't think any Pakistanis would get fired up enough. In terms of on the field, they don't get as pissed off as the Indian players.

We have more angry guys - Zaheer, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Praveen etc.

Sure does having the world's strongest cricket board on your back helps..also knowing that the opponents will think twice before sledging you the way they used to up till 2002, now that they have realized the huge indian cricket market where they can make money by singing along with asha bhonsle when they are not bowling short pitched stuff. and not to forget the IPL!

 

[aussie]

He's been innocuous before or since that innings, had to plough through a ton of overs to get 4 poles and, because of that, failed with the bat. What he brings with the ball affects his batting too much to make it worth it.

30 overs - 4/98. Its not as if Hauritz would have spun through ENG if he played, North bowled very nicely. In the recent adeliade test vs WI when on that wearing pitch in WI second innings - North was just an innocuous than Hauritz. Benn was the best spinner on view.

Plus i'm not sure how you liking him bowling so much overs to him failing with the bat. After all AUS picked him based on the fact that he did the dual role successfully for Western Australia.

 

[silentstriker]

Praveen Kumar? How the hell does a "fast bowler" that bowls at 110kph get fired up that much?

 

[Manee]

Praveen Kumar? How the hell does a "fast bowler" that bowls at 110kph get fired up that much?

More like 130kph.

 

[Top_Cat]

30 overs - 4/98. Its not as if Hauritz would have spun through ENG if he played,

Absolutely no way of knowing that.

Plus i'm not sure how you liking him bowling so much overs to him failing with the bat. After all AUS picked him based on the fact that he did the dual role successfully for Western Australia.

No, he was picked because he could contribute handy overs, not bowl as a front-liner! Never bowled that many overs in an innings for WA and most times he bowled significant overs, he failed with the bat. As it would with anyone, the impact of his bowling on his batting shouldn't be under-estimated. That's why, as with when he was picked, he should bowl as a part-timer only.

 

[howardj]

I actually think this will be a good Series. It really will be a matter of how Pakistan's batting holds up. Certainly, they would have to be pretty happy with the three venues for these Tests.

 

[aussie]

Absolutely no way of knowing that.

Acutally i think we do.

- We the example of Hauritz bowling on a much more wearing 5th day track in the 1st test @ Cardiff, where his effect was just as similar to North spell @ the Oval.

- Plus we have the example of how Swann bowled to AUS on the last day in which he had toil for his 4 wickets, since the pitch was really turning square.

No, he was picked because he could contribute handy overs, not bowl as a front-liner! Never bowled that many overs in an innings for WA and most times he bowled significant overs, he failed with the bat. As it would with anyone, the impact of his bowling on his batting shouldn't be under-estimated. That's why, as with when he was picked, he should bowl as a part-timer only.

We firstly i have never suggesting North would/should bowl as 'front line" bowler if AUS play 4-seamers + Watson. His role would always be part-time , if he gets a few wickets fine. But main wicket-taking options will be strickly the seamers.

Plus do you links to any FC matches for WA, where when he had an extended bowling spell he failed with the bat. Since i do remember in the warm-up before the 1st test in SA, he did both fairly effectively agains SA Board XI comparable to some state sides.

 

[Uppercut]

Sami takes six in the Domestic Final, as the opposition are rolled for 66.

But you know, he's dire, etc.

Well he averages 24 in non-test FC cricket, so it's not like that's anything unusual.

 

[NUFAN]

So will Peter Siddle or Clint McKay be playing at home on boxing day? How'd Siddle look in the OD match yesterday? I'm guessing Siddle will play if he pulled up well after the match last night.

 

[Sanz]

Yep, lack of Afridi and Shoaib to give some send-offs.

More chance of Pakistani players fighting with themselves on tour then Australia.

TBH we don't know whole lot about the current group. I predict that we will see a lot of emotions from Md. Aamer, Umar Akmal and Kaneria. It will be a cracking series.

 

[Athlai]

Can see the Akmal brothers getting a bit chatty. Gul saying something wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[nightprowler10]

Expecting this series to go through without any controversy tbh.