Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 113

Thread: As an ODI opener : Ganguly or Anwar ... AND WHY?

  1. #1
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,255

    As an ODI opener : Ganguly or Anwar ... AND WHY?

    This may have been done before but I recently came across a blog by an Indian fan. He had drawn up an all time sub-continental side and as openers he chose Ganguly you partner Tendulkar instead of Anwar. Maybe he would have chosen Anwar if he (the blogger) was a Pakistani but that apart I find it an intriguing question.

    There isn't much between them as can be seen from the stats below but I would love to know what people think. Here are a few ground rules and it would be great if people followed them.

    1. This is not to fit him into an All Time sub-continental side so please DO NOT consider "long standing successful partnership with Tendulkar" as a criteria.
    2. We are only looking at them as openers in ODI's so the choice has nothing to do with their overall caliber as batsmen but you may comment on their batting besides as opener as long as the choice is not based on that.
    3. Fielding is not criteria nor is bowling ability. This is purely about batting.
    4. You can use additional stats to support your argument.

    I am not making this a poll because I am not interested in knowing the numbers of votes for each as much as the arguments for and against

    Code:
    Player        	Anwar	Ganguly
    
    ODI'd        	247	311
    Inns          	244	300
    Not Outs	19	23
    Aggregate	8824	11363
    Average    	39.24	41.02[
    Highest     	194	183
    50+           	63	94
    100+         	20	22
    Ducks       	15	16
    Scoring Rate	80.67	73.71
    Inns/50+	3.87	3.19
    Inns/100	12.2	13.6
    
    Opener-Ins	220	236
    Opener-NO	16	16
    Opener-Agg	8156	9146
    Opener-Avg	39.98	41.57
    Opener-50+	57	77
    Opener-100+	20	19
    Opener I/50+	3.86	3.06
    Opener-I/100	11	12.42
    Opener-Srate	79.93	73.59
    Opener -4's	866	935
    Opener -6's	88	139
    There isn't too much that separates them in the stats at first sight though one can pick a few odd things.

  2. #2
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,591
    A lot of Ganguly's 100s came from 98-2000 I believe, when he was supreme. I think in that period, he is clearly better than Anwar, but overall I think Anwar snares him by a bit.

    They both ****ed up in WC finals vs. Australia though.

    Anwar chose to change his grip in the 99 Final when he was firing. Chops on next ball.

    Sourav sent Australia in on a flat track in 03 based on the fear from the previous collapse earlier in the WC.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  3. #3
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,216
    I give Anwar a slight edge as a one day player, and a notable edge as a test player. He was slightly more aggressive when in top form IMO.

  4. #4
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,066
    Wow, tough choice. Both glorious through the off-side, Anwar better on the leg. M'thinks Anwar was slightly the better big match player so I'd give it to him. Just.
    The Colourphonics

    Bandcamp
    Twitderp


  5. #5
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,255
    I took some more stats (performance against non-minnows). For this I took away all innings against the non-Test sides, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh; amazingly the figures remain very similar.

    Of course, these are all figures as opener.

    Code:
    Player	Innings	Runs	Avg	50+	100+	Strike Rate
    
    Anwar	191	7023	38.6	49	18	79.7
    
    Ganguly	188	7038	39.5	59	14	73.1
    Ganguly crosses fifty more often but Anwar scores a hundred more regularly and Ganguly continues to lag 6.5 runs per 100 balls behind on strike rate.

    Break those figures up further countrywise and you find that both have a problem against Australia while Anwar also has a poor showing against South Africa. However against all other teams Anwar is consistently in the forties.

    Saeed Anwar
    Code:
    Grouping	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50+
    
    v South Africa	22	373	42	16.95	61.24	0	0
    v Australia	26	634	104*	25.36	73.21	1	1
    v England	10	434	77	43.4	80.51	0	4
    v India       	45	1940	194	44.09	89.98	4	12
    v West Indies	12	486	131	44.18	72.32	2	4
    v New Zealand	29	1157	113*	44.5	76.06	4	10
    v Sri Lanka	47	1999	126	45.43	81.52	7	18
    
    Overall      	191	7023	194	38.59	79.67	18	49
    Saurav Ganguly
    Code:
    Grouping	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
    							
    v Australia	24	558	100	23.25	63.69	1	4
    v England	21	730	117*	36.5	78.15	1	6
    v New Zealand	27	1027	153*	39.5	73.88	3	9
    v Pakistan	36	1346	141	39.58	71.36	2	11
    v Sri Lanka	33	1227	183	39.58	72.68	4	10
    v South Africa	25	1135	141*	49.34	77	3	9
    v West Indies	22	1015	98	50.75	73.39	0	10
    							
    Overall      	188	7038	183	39.5	73.10	14	59
    Last edited by SJS; 14-08-2009 at 12:42 AM.

  6. #6
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colombo, SL
    Posts
    5,663
    Anwar had the edge IMO. He was not troubled by the short stuff as Ganguly (seen from the test experiance), although Anwar played most of his cricket in a bouncer less era. But I would expect him to do better than Ganguly when fast bowlers have smelled blood.
    Diuretics are used to look good at TV shows

    I played for 20 years in the Lankan team, I did not have any problems as a Tamil - Muralidaran

  7. #7
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Moving to Somalia
    Posts
    43,380
    Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
    ~ Cribbage

    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by simonlee48 View Post
    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
    Sanga isn't the best off spinner in the history of cricket? News to me.

  8. #8
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Anwar had the edge IMO. He was not troubled by the short stuff as Ganguly (seen from the test experiance), although Anwar played most of his cricket in a bouncer less era. But I would expect him to do better than Ganguly when fast bowlers have smelled blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
    That appears to be conventional logic but interestingly Anwar had his worst experiences when playing in Australia and South Africa where the pacers normally would be expected to dominate. Have a look at their records as openers when playing in Australia and South Africa.

    Code:
    Player	Inns	Runs	Ave	SR	100	50+
    
    Anwar	40	780	19.5	67.7	0	0
    
    Ganguly	33	1033	32.3	72.2	3	6

  9. #9
    First Class Debutant Naumaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    820
    Saeed Anwer, not cuz he was a Pakistani, but i guess he was more stylish than the ganguly, i might be wrong, cuz ganguly was also a good batsman

  10. #10
    Cricketer Of The Year SirBloody Idiot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Moving the hole in the o-zone layer
    Posts
    8,547
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
    Agreed with this. Also Anwar the better bloke, and I'm sure as **** not voting Ganguly.

  11. #11
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,878
    both were very elegant to look at but anwar was even better than ganguly because he was more confident on the leg side compared to saurav.

    also, the ability to score hundreds more frequently against big teams and a higher strike rate should definitely tilt it in anwar's favor. of course, saurav would definitely be remembered as one of the finest openers in limited overs cricket. but anwar is marginally better than him.
    Last edited by bagapath; 14-08-2009 at 06:31 AM.

  12. #12
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,255
    For me it is very tight. I am not convinced with all of the arguments given here. I would still put it marginally for Anwar for the following reasons.
    1. He had a more rounded and all round game than Ganguly.
    2. His higher strike rate inspite of much fewer sixes shows a better stroke play and capacity to penetrate fields better.
    3. He was the better runner between the wickets of the two.

    In Ganguly's favour I would put handling of spinners.

    I think it heped Ganguly a lot to have someone as good as Sachin at the other end in that great opening partnership. He also had Sehwag for quite sometime. Anwar was less fortunate with great opening batsmen at the other end for a sustained partnership over years. That has to be an advantage for Ganguly.

    Yes I would go for Anwar but its marginal.

  13. #13
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    37,696
    Would Ganguly have been more aggressive if he didn't have Tendulkar at the other end? You can't know the answer to that question, but I think even if he had been more aggressive, I would have to give it to Anwar. Tests and ODIs.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFu_Kallis View Post
    Peter Siddle top scores in both innings....... Matthew Wade gets out twice in one ball
    "The future light cone of the next Indian fast bowler is exactly the same as the past light cone of the previous one"
    -My beliefs summarized in words much more eloquent than I could come up with

    How the Universe came from nothing

  14. #14
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    9,506
    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    For me it is very tight. I am not convinced with all of the arguments given here. I would still put it marginally for Anwar for the following reasons.
    1. He had a more rounded and all round game than Ganguly.
    2. His higher strike rate inspite of much fewer sixes shows a better stroke play and capacity to penetrate fields better.
    3. He was the better runner between the wickets of the two.

    In Ganguly's favour I would put handling of spinners.

    I think it heped Ganguly a lot to have someone as good as Sachin at the other end in that great opening partnership. He also had Sehwag for quite sometime. Anwar was less fortunate with great opening batsmen at the other end for a sustained partnership over years. That has to be an advantage for Ganguly.

    Yes I would go for Anwar but its marginal.
    Anwar had Sohail who was sure not even 1/10 of Sachin but still complimented Anwar superbly.

  15. #15
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    Anwar had Sohail who was sure not even 1/10 of Sachin but still complimented Anwar superbly.
    Sure but its not the same thing as having Tendulkar.

    - Ganguly and Tendulkar have 136 partnerships at 49.3 each.
    - Twenty one century partnerships.
    - Ten above 150.
    - Two above 250 !
    - He had another five century partnerships with Sehwag with two of them in the 190's.

    Amir Sohail and Aanwr had 73 partnerships at 39.1 each with three century partnerships.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •