vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
I'd play for China if it meant that I'd be playing the highest possible level of my chosen sport. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather be playing for Australia.
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Ireland For Test Status?
- Thread starter laksh_01
- Start date
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Yeah, fair enough. Would've had no problem utilising my mum's Irish-born dad to play for them if I had any talent either.
What I meant tho was I doubt many Irishmen who play "English" sports like association football, rugby or cricket would be small-minded enough to refuse to play alongside Englishmen.
Could conceivably imagine a few of the more staunch GAA athletes doing so tho. Was a big ho-hah about opening up Croke Park to "English" sports as recently as two years ago.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I wasn't suggesting they would. I was suggesting that the everyday Irishman would be far less enthused to take-up cricket, should he show an unusual ability at it, if he thought the ultimate aim was playing for a team that, effectively, was England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, rather than one that was Ireland.
As I say, I'd be delighted if this wasn't the case. But our Irish friends, who are far more likely to know about it than me, tell me it is.
The problem with Ireland potentially merging with the England cricket team is that it would sitll be called the English cricket team. Wales are apparently part of the ECB, but they are never ever mentioned. There's not even the formality of calling it the EWCB. The smaller part of a merger will always be swept under the carpet. If (and that's a big if) I ever made it to the level where I could be a test cricketer, I would never EVER play for a team under the 'England' banner. Simply because I am not English, I think that someone should play for the country they were brought up in, or maybe have relatives who lived there or something similar. I also don't agree with South Africans and Australians playing for our cricket team, but without them we would be even worse, so I have no qualms about supporting them. Just my two pence worth.
EDIT: Just on the topic, we are nowhere near ready for test status. I think we should have a first class infastructure in place before we can even think about test cricket. Making teams for each of the 4 provinces (Ulster, Munster, Leinster, Connaght) could work.. and If we could provide a high-quality first class competition and be competitive with other nations (Maybe playing international sides 'A' teams), then we can consider test cricket. But for now, no way are we ready.
EDIT: Just on the topic, we are nowhere near ready for test status. I think we should have a first class infastructure in place before we can even think about test cricket. Making teams for each of the 4 provinces (Ulster, Munster, Leinster, Connaght) could work.. and If we could provide a high-quality first class competition and be competitive with other nations (Maybe playing international sides 'A' teams), then we can consider test cricket. But for now, no way are we ready.
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Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yup, that's more or less what I was saying. For England and Ireland to play cricket together it would require something that is simply never, ever going to happen - ie, the England cricket team to be renamed.
I'd have absolutely no qualms about that whatsoever - I support it because it's the team I've grown-up supporting, not because it's called "England". However, unfortunately, plenty of England fans would be outraged at the team being renamed, and that in itself might well lose more support than it would gain.
I just dont really understand why you would want Ireland and England to make up the same side? While I dont really object to your logic that it would be the same as the West Indies the circumstances are very different. I think that cricket should be encouraged to grow and merging Ireland with England would do no good for anyone.
Uppercut
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There's a lot of factors listed against cricket development in this country, none of which should ever be used to decide whether a team should receive test status because they're useless. Judging by these kinds of criteria Bermuda would be the best Associate nation, New Zealand would never have been any use at all and the West Indies' small population size and relative poverty would make them lucky to even have ODI status and India would always have been the undisputed best side in the world.
The quality of a country at cricket is generally completely irrelevant to the level of interest in the country relative to other sports, the population size, the wealth of the country... whatever. You can't say Ireland will never be test class because of such things, they're already defying them to be top of the Associates. The only thing limiting their development is England taking their quality players. Even the lack of a FC system is irrelevant because everyone can play next door in England (which is the catch 22- we need England for their structure and coaching but they place strict limits on our development by poaching our players).
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
But british and Irish Lions are not in a position where they for exa,ple have to pick between representing England or representing the Lions, that is the catch here.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
A very fair point.
I've actually advocated on here more than once a compromise whereby Irish players could continue to play for their native country in ODIs & T20Is but play for England in tests until such time as Ireland gain test status.
It's not ideal, but it seems criminal that Ireland (and Denmark) are effectively punished for producing decent cricketers. & one can't blame the players themselves because obviously they have ambitions to play at the highest level, which they can't do if they remain loyal to the countries of their births.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
But where does that leave test nations that are not ina position to mooch quality cricketers from conviniently located semi-decent Associates .eg Australia and New Zealand ?
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, not ideal but very workable. Enables all sides to take something.
No drama and a rule like that could be introduced overnight. Only issue would be schedule clashes eg England Tests vs SA at the same time as Ireland ODIs vs NZ.
Where should the poor Associate cricketer be?
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I don't think equity to Australaisian test sides should really be the primary concern.
In any case Europeans have qualified for NZ before; Roger Twose & Dipak Patel did it, so it's not impossible.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Good point, and if these cricketers play teste then what is the use of the Intercontinental Cup.
cpr
International Coach
Thinking about if, if Ireland were given test status tomorrow, how would they fare for the first year?
Obviously the return of Joyce and Morgan would be a huge boost, and they have got their own imports from Aus and SA (no different to England there). One thing that hasnt really been mentioned is how many English players will want to play test cricket for Ireland. Reckon theres a whole teams worth of more than decent county cricketers who'd qualify through ancestry (probably one or two of them would be able to get into the England team if they were South African).
If they could organise a 6 team championship at home, or managed to get 2 teams into the English CC then home developed players would start to emerge more and more (lets face it, who need Derbyshire anyway? Even if we must keep em, 2 divisions of 10 would work if we cut some of the crappy one day games that arnt exactly important anyway, too many round robins in the cups for me)
Reckon if they were thrown into it now, they'd swim not sink.
Obviously the return of Joyce and Morgan would be a huge boost, and they have got their own imports from Aus and SA (no different to England there). One thing that hasnt really been mentioned is how many English players will want to play test cricket for Ireland. Reckon theres a whole teams worth of more than decent county cricketers who'd qualify through ancestry (probably one or two of them would be able to get into the England team if they were South African).
If they could organise a 6 team championship at home, or managed to get 2 teams into the English CC then home developed players would start to emerge more and more (lets face it, who need Derbyshire anyway? Even if we must keep em, 2 divisions of 10 would work if we cut some of the crappy one day games that arnt exactly important anyway, too many round robins in the cups for me)
Reckon if they were thrown into it now, they'd swim not sink.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
The would struggle to bowl teams out.
Without wanting to harp on about something I regularly bring up over the past year or 2, but there is already a FC structure with the Inter Cont. Cup. A small revision and that could be the basis for the EU Test team.
High profile, EU funding, flying the blue flag of unity and a pretty strong team.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
They just got beaten by Afghanistan, can’t beat Zimbabwe A or indeed compete in the recent months with Bangladesh. So no.
Also, they held a financially lucrative ODI series against India and South Africa a coupe of years back, yet no one gave two hoots to turn up and watch.
Produced some handy cricketers in the past few years though.
Also, they held a financially lucrative ODI series against India and South Africa a coupe of years back, yet no one gave two hoots to turn up and watch.
Produced some handy cricketers in the past few years though.
Debris
International 12th Man
I have no issues this or any team gaining test status.
What needs to happen, though, is that the requirement for all teams to play each other home and away needs to be dumped. There should be a different way to decide the test championship. Maybe requirement to play the two ranked directly above and below in a 4 year period, with some fiddling to account for movement in rankings, teams at top and bottom, etc. This way you could have as many test teams as you liked while hopefully avoiding teams being smashed.
What needs to happen, though, is that the requirement for all teams to play each other home and away needs to be dumped. There should be a different way to decide the test championship. Maybe requirement to play the two ranked directly above and below in a 4 year period, with some fiddling to account for movement in rankings, teams at top and bottom, etc. This way you could have as many test teams as you liked while hopefully avoiding teams being smashed.
to produce players for england 
Evermind
International Debutant
What I like about the top 8 is that any of them could beat any other team on their day. This has ensured that if pitches are properly prepared, it's always a contest (now that Australia is a lot weaker) and you'll always get quality entertainment.
As opposed to that, I can't imagine watching a Bangladesh vs Australia series or a Zimbabwe vs SA series. The disparity between the top 8 sides and the 2 others is far too huge - it's like a football world cup group with France, Italy, Malaysia and Fiji - what's the point of the last two?
As opposed to that, I can't imagine watching a Bangladesh vs Australia series or a Zimbabwe vs SA series. The disparity between the top 8 sides and the 2 others is far too huge - it's like a football world cup group with France, Italy, Malaysia and Fiji - what's the point of the last two?