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Thread: What went wrong in the Ashes series?

  1. #1
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    What went wrong in the Ashes series?

    Even though Australia won the last test and made it a respectable 3-2 loss to England i can't help but feel that Australia threw the fight so to speak.
    The first test it was a though Australia were not properly prepared and lost convincingly.
    The second test Australia played very well, everyone performing at their very best.
    But then in test 3 even though all the talk was on how England were rattled, they ended up winning convincingly.
    And then there was that terrible, terrible innings by Australia where they only made 60 runs and pretty much handed the Ashes back to England.

    Here are my thoughts on why the Ashes of 2015 was such a disaster.
    1) The squad was picked months before the series even began. They chose a lot of older players one of whom retired in Chris Rogers. Why would you pick someone that was going to retire after the series?? With all due respect he doesnt have much on the line if he played poorly. On top of that they initially chose Watson as the all rounder. He only playes one match then is dropped for the rest of the series??? On top of that Brad Haddin who i think is a great keeper/batsmen was dropped after missing a test for personal reasons and was not allowed to play out the rest of the series and potentially his last tour of England. How utterly disrespectful to someone who has done do much.

    2) In terms of batting, i dont understand why Warner is the opener, for every hundred he scored he has 5 other innings where he gets out cheaply for few runs. Why not put him down the order and let him attack the bowlers and play the same role Gilchrist did.
    3) Why not have both Marsh brothers in the team? its no like it hasnt been done before, there was the Chappele brothers and the Waugh twins. Plus they are both great batsmen with runs on the board, and one of them being a proper all rounder.
    4) If they chose Siddle for the last test why didnt they pick him for the last test???

    Yes, Clarke has to pay the price for Australia's poor showing, but what about others. Surely the selectors need to be seriously looked at. And the coach too. Why should Leahmen be let off the hook for such a dismal performance in the 4th test. Back to Clarke why couldnt he have given the reigns to Smith when he took over as Captain against India.

    I think one good idea would be to have a separate captain for each form of the game. Idea number two, if a player is chosen to play at the start of a series then they should be allowed / given the opportunity to play the whole series. If they fail miserably, then let them go afterwards, but dont humiliate them, like what they did with Watson and Haddin.
    Idea three the captain should get a big say in who is in their side or set it up so that the captains choice for a player is worth 2 votes or something. Idea four, with all due respect to the county sides, they are not good preperation for the Australia side. They should be allowed to have a four day match against another nation, even Ireland before beginning the Ashes.

    That is just a few of my thoughts. Does anyone agree, disagree, or have other thoughts.
    Last edited by marty344; 29-08-2015 at 04:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Hall of Fame Member flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    I thought it all went swimmingly personally.

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    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    I disagree with almost everything you've said.

    1. Rogers is your best opener. That's why you pick him
    2. Warner is an opening batsman, funnily enough that's why Australia pick him to open.
    3. Shaun Marsh is rubbish
    4. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
    5. I agree Lehmann is a berk
    6. Because Clarke is captain, Smith was standing in because of injury.
    7. Watson and Haddin are duds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I disagree with almost everything you've said.

    1. Rogers is your best opener. That's why you pick him
    2. Warner is an opening batsman, funnily enough that's why Australia pick him to open.
    3. Shaun Marsh is rubbish
    4. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
    5. I agree Lehmann is a berk
    6. Because Clarke is captain, Smith was standing in because of injury.
    7. Watson and Haddin are duds.
    Warner is an opening batsmen that gets out way to cheaply. Its all well and good when he gets a big score. It doesnt do his team much good when he gets out cheaply and early and leaves the middle order exposed on the first day.

    My point was, instead of waiting until after the Ashes, to pick a young squad and start preparing for the future.


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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Warner is at worst the second best opener in the world and Haddin sucks and has always been a middling cricketer barring one or two purple patches. Watson started a good player but has sucked for a long time now.
    Last edited by Flem274*; 29-08-2015 at 05:23 AM.
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    International Captain indiaholic's Avatar
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    Warner is the second best opening batsman after Vijay. You are not going to get anybody better than that.
    Haddin is filthy. The few times he contributed over his career were just dumb luck.
    Watson is rubbish. Just because you made a mistake by selecting him once does not mean that you don't try to correct it.
    Rogers is awesome. Your theory about him not wanting to score runs was disproved by him being your best batsman this series.
    Marsh is an IPL bully, a tale of infinite potential and dud returns. Just like Watson... Or Rohit Sharma.

    Australia lost because they didn't have one or two guys who could deal with swing bowling the couple of matches it mattered.

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    Drop Rogers because he wants to retire at the end but pick Haddin because he deserves a farewell series

    Ok

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Well, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose the issue, I'd say getting bowled out for 60 probably has something to do with it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    Well, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose the issue, I'd say getting bowled out for 60 probably has something to do with it
    I have to disagree. Even if Australia had made a decent score i still think England would have won that match and the series. So it cant just be put down to a vey poor innings in match four.

    Australia is clearly now in a rebuilding phase with many in the test team retiring (Clarke, Rodgers) whilst others have been shown the door such as Watson and Haddin, whilst others youd have to believe wont be around for much longer, such as Siddle, and Johnston.

    I think a big problem the selectors have is there arent that many players making a solid claim for a test spot.

    I just think the whole Ashes campaign was a shambles, it was poorly planned, poorly executed.

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    International Regular Tangles's Avatar
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    Picking a squad for 2 tours in different conditions was stupid but Boof didn't complain till after. Rogers was our best bat and we should be begging him to stay for another year so Bancroft etc can have another Shield season.

    The 2 tests that were won were on the back of Smith runs in decent batting conditions. When the conditions didn't suit and he didn't paper over the cracks our batting was horrid. The score flatters IMO. Ignore the dead rubber and its 3-1.

    Darsh sux and I hope his cards get stamped but due to the selectors baffling love of him he will probably get Rogers or Clarkes spot.

    Most people thought Siddle was gone at this level. Maybe he could have helped but we'll never know. The question now is does he offer anything in Aussie conditions where runways are more likely than anything else.

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    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Warner is at worst the second best opener in the world and Haddin sucks and has always been a middling cricketer barring one or two purple patches. Watson started a good player but has sucked for a long time now.
    Third.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Third.
    I don't really see how Cook or Vijay are ahead of him, personally. Not sure who else there is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Third.
    Vijay is third. Definitely third now Rogers has retired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    1) The squad was picked months before the series even began. They chose a lot of older players one of whom retired in Chris Rogers. Why would you pick someone that was going to retire after the series??
    Everyone is going to retire eventually; why pick anyone at all?

    Seriously, this logic basically collapses in on itself. If you don't pick Rogers because he's going to retire after the series, then you don't pick him in the previous series either because you're going to drop him afterwards anyway and apparently picking someone to play one series is unacceptable. And then if you know you're not going to pick him in that series because he's going to retire the series after, then you shouldn't pick him in the series prior to that either. This could be applied all the way back to his debut, in which case he'd never debut at all. Moreover it could actually be applied to every batsman ever, leaving you with no-one to select at all. Seems like it's a got a few holes in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    On top of that they initially chose Watson as the all rounder. He only playes one match then is dropped for the rest of the series???
    The slate isn't wiped completely clean at the start of each series, for good reason. Watson/Marsh was a 50/50 selection based on previous performances and Watson's poor performance in the first Tests tipped the scales enough to change it. He wasn't dropped after one Test; he was after 59 Tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    On top of that Brad Haddin who i think is a great keeper/batsmen was dropped after missing a test for personal reasons and was not allowed to play out the rest of the series and potentially his last tour of England. How utterly disrespectful to someone who has done do much.
    Given how much this contradicts what you said about Rogers, at this point I'm beginning to suspect you're just listing every possible point of criticism regardless of what you as a selector would have done at the time because it's inconceivable to you that England could actually be the better side in English conditions and that if Australia lost it could only possibly be due to a series of unforgivable selection gaffs. If so, yawn. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Test selection isn't a charity. Haddin probably shouldn't been dropped earlier than he was if anything; not later.



    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    2) In terms of batting, i dont understand why Warner is the opener
    Well, he's the best opener in the world, so there's a start.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    3) Why not have both Marsh brothers in the team? its no like it hasnt been done before, there was the Chappele brothers and the Waugh twins.
    Do you actually think the reason they didn't both play in the same game is because the selectors have a Marsh quota and/or an aversion to picking brothers? The fact that brothers have played together before or indeed even the fact that they're brothers at all is more or less irrelevant.

    This also again contradicts your complaint about Watson being dropped unless you're claiming you wanted to drop Clarke before the series -- in which case I call bull****. There aren't enough places in the team to play Mitch Marsh, Shaun Marsh and Shane Watson given Smith and Clarke were rightly auto-picks.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    4) If they chose Siddle for the last test why didnt they pick him for the last test???
    Not really sure what this means exactly; there must be a typo in there somewhere. I'm going to assume the second "last Test" was meant to read either "first Test" or "fourth Test". Siddle played the last Test because Haze picked up an injury, but even if Haze hadn't picked up an injury and was actually just dropped, your gripe is weird. Mid-season changes are allowed, and changes in performance change selection pecking order.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty344 View Post
    Its all well and good when he gets a big score. It doesnt do his team much good when he gets out cheaply and early and leaves the middle order exposed on the first day.
    Again, this applies to every batsman in the history of the game. What makes Warner good is that his big score:out cheaply ratio is much higher than the other candidates for his spot (and indeed players who occupy his spot in other Test teams!)

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