View Poll Results: Would you sub out Nathan Lyon for Trent Bridge?

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  • No - Lyon has been dicked around with enough

    19 70.37%
  • Yes - Lyon for Faulkner

    0 0%
  • Yes - Lyon for Starc

    1 3.70%
  • Yes - Lyon for Bird

    4 14.81%
  • Programmatic specificity will lead Labor to victory

    3 11.11%
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Thread: Australia - should they field four quicks?

  1. #1
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Australia - should they field four quicks?

    In light of Starceh looking the goods with the Duke, it does merit consideration.

    The case for:

    1. English conditions obviously favour quick bowlers, and it's likely that at least one will run through a side with a terrific showing. It's a better probability of that with four specialist pacemen instead of three.

    2. All available seamers, Bird aside, are significantly better batsmen than Lyon.

    3. The last two times we beat the filth we were fielding four quicks (Headingley 2009 and Perth 2010).

    The case against:

    1. The over-rate. Getting to 90 overs is improbable with no viable part-time spinner, presuming Smitteh and Warner don't make the starting XI and Clarke's back is too fragile to risk bowling him.

    2. Would be a waste of a new ball given five quicks will be using it, and none but Twatto are proven at reversing it.

    3. Lyon has a much better chance of dismissals with Haddin keeping, and his effectiveness under Wade has skewed his average.

    4. Lyon will have massive footmarks to bowl at for Cook and Broad.

    5. He just took a seven-for against the best players of spin in the world.


    As much as I love Lyon and believe he deserves success, I wouldn't shed (many) tears if Faulkner or Starc played at Trent Bridge. The batting they add would be priceless. That said, there are unanswered questions about our attack's penetration with the older ball (see South Africa in Adelaide, Sri Lanka in Hobart and the whole India series) and Lyon's our best bet to keep pressure on from overs 30-80. Moreover, the over-rate quandary is impossible without him if the Poms aren't dismissed quickly.
    Last edited by LongHopCassidy; 27-06-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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  2. #2
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

    Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.

  3. #3
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

    Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.
    Agree to a point. KP wasn't playing, and he's parallel with Clarke for the title of best player of spin in the world.

  4. #4
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy View Post
    Agree to a point. KP wasn't playing, and he's parallel with Clarke for the title of best player of spin in the world.
    Talking about the same KP that is incapable of playing left arm spin?
    Last edited by hendrix; 27-06-2013 at 09:40 PM.


  5. #5
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    My dislike of Watson is well known but I'm of the opinion that if he can bowl in England, he may well be our best bowler in the conditions.
    That said, if Watson is capable of bowling, I'd much prefer we play Lyon.

  6. #6
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    My dislike of Watson is well known but I'm of the opinion that if he can bowl in England, he may well be our best bowler in the conditions.
    That said, if Watson is capable of bowling, I'd much prefer we play Lyon.
    + 1

  7. #7
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    England isn't New Zealand or Australia, where finger spinners go to die. There will be favourable conditions for spin during the series and you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket and say "all 5 days ahead will significantly favour pace over spin and every English batsman is significantly worse against pace than spin."

    Two things we know won't be true. If you've got a test standard spinner in England, it's always best to keep safe and use them. It's not like Lyon is Jeetan Patel or Xavier Doherty.
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  8. #8
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Always, always, always play your spinner.
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  9. #9
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    When you've got Watson in your side, it'd be ludicrous to play a fifth seamer without a spinner.
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    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

    Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.
    Not in England. Average spinners get belted in England.

    Having said that, I agree with Flem. England's a lot more spin friendly than people think.
    Last edited by Furball; 28-06-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  11. #11
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    No, because it means we would effectively be playing five seamers, and that's a bit cray cray even for our selectors.

  12. #12
    International 12th Man Tangles's Avatar
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    5 seamers not needed. The Glass all-rounder gives us a useful reverse swing option till he breaks.

  13. #13
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Talking about the same KP that is incapable of playing left arm spin?
    Not really relevant here unless you're expecting Clarke to do a lot of bowling...

    EDIT: So tempted to vote for the irrelevant fifth option...
    Last edited by Spark; 28-06-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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  14. #14
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Not really relevant here unless you're expecting Clarke to do a lot of bowling...

    EDIT: So tempted to vote for the irrelevant fifth option...
    It was more in the response to the "second best player of spin" comment.

    Even Clarke's not the best player of spin in the world.

  15. #15
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Flem pretty much nailed it. English wickets aren't half as conducive to fast bowling as people think, and they definitely turn more than people seem to imagine they do. Just look at the last two test matches in England, where Williamson was a genuine threat at Lords and Swann got half the wickets at Headingly. Even regardless of that, it's nothing but excessive to play four specialist quicks if Watson is playing and bowling. We had this discussion before the Brisbane test last year, and the CW, and Australia, consensus was that the spinner should play, so if they're playing in Brsibane, you'd definitely expect them to play all the tests in England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

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