Overrated, over-indulged and overpaid

[Prince EWS]

aussie?

SMH

Haha, I think the public has accepted the team rankings to an extent this days, but no-one seems to pay much attention to the player tables. Tom Cooper is the 49th best ODI batsman in the world based on ten ODIs for Holland against Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Canada, Ireland, Kenya and Scotland. That puts him ahead of Grant Elliott, Angelo Mathews, Shaun Marsh, Martin Guptill, Callum Ferguson etc etc. There are a lot of flaws in it.

 

[Top_Cat]

There's never been anyone to match Imran Khan on the pull except, perhaps, Shane Warne.

First I've heard of them referred to as wankers.

 

[pup11]

It's a completely different format of playing, and some players just aren't suited to it. It would be silly to hold that against them.

To add to what sifter said, most good test batsman for Australia over the years have also been pretty good ODI players with Slater being the only exception, not naming Langer because he was an excellent limited overs cricketer who never really got much of a chance in the coloured clothing for Oz.
As I mentioned in my previous post, Khawaja might have the FC numbers behind him but I personally haven't been all that convinced with his batting so far.
Whereas despite likes of Finch or Ferguson not having the numbers behind them in the FC cricket, they just come across as players who posses that X-factor to win Australia games in almost any format of the game, and that is the hallmark of a good all-round batsman and I don't think Khawaja has reached that point yet.

 

[howardj]

Don't think Hussey or North were bad selections, both have performed for Australia and even if they have been inconsistent they both have scored a lot of runs

.

In the case of Hussey, it's his reselection that is most worrying - averaging in the 30s for the last three years is not Test standard. And, guess what? You don't get better when you're 35. As for North - he was a journeyman at State level (averaging in the low 40s in Shield cricket, after having played many seasons) and has now transferred that into the international sphere. Averaging in the 30s after 20-odd Tests, is again not Test standard.

I don't believe in handing over test caps to young batsmen who don't have one or two consistent seasons of FC cricket behind them. I like Ferguson and Khwajha, but all they have going for them right now is the reputation of being good young players, but they certainly don't have the FC runs to stake a claim in the test team, or atleast that's the way I look at it

Ponting, Hayden, Martyn, Clarke, Slater, Langer etc all say 'hi'. I mean, Usman averages 56 after 20 something games. That's not enough? If only you applied the same high standards to North.

 

[pup11]

.

In the case of Hussey, it's his reselection that is most worrying - averaging in the 30s for the last three years is not Test standard. And, guess what? You don't get better when you're 35. As for North - he was a journeyman at State level (averaging in the low 40s in Shield cricket, after having played many seasons) and has now transferred that into the international sphere. Averaging in the 30s after 20-odd Tests, is again not Test standard.



Ponting, Hayden, Martyn, Clarke, Slater, Langer etc all say 'hi'. I mean, Usman averages 56 after 20 something games. That's not enough? If only you applied the same high standards to North.

North has scored 100's in South Africa, India and England probably three of the toughest test teams in their own backyard and has 5 test centuries all away from home, so he is hardly a bottom scrapper.
Yeah, he has been pretty inconsistent and that's one of things he can work on, but hasn't that been the case with most Australian batsmen!? So why just single him or Hussey out!?
Hussey is 35 but don't know why you should hold that against him when it comes to turning his form around or improving, and likes of Laxman, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Chanderpaul, Jayawardene, Mohd Yousuf would also vouch for that.
Also, made my views regarding Khawaja pretty clear, I think he is good player but I have a few reservations over his technique, and though stats show a player's caliber to a large extent but that shouldn't be the only barometer for international selection.

 

[morgieb]

North has scored 100's in South Africa, India and England probably three of the toughest test teams in their own backyard and has 5 test centuries all away from home, so he is hardly a bottom scrapper.
Yeah, he has been pretty inconsistent and that's one of things he can work on, but hasn't that been the case with most Australian batsmen!? So why just single him or Hussey out!?
Hussey is 35 but don't know why you should hold that against him when it comes to turning his form around or improving, and likes of Laxman, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Chanderpaul, Jayawardene, Mohd Yousuf would also vouch for that.
Also, made my views regarding Khawaja pretty clear, I think he is good player but I have a few reservations over his technique, and though stats show a player's caliber to a large extent but that shouldn't be the only barometer for international selection.

Because he's been inconsistent to a ridiculous extent, plus has less 'runs on the board' than other batsmen.

Hussey's been on the decline at an incredible extent, whereas the other batsman were still generally in form. Jayawardene's not even 35, plus MoYo hasn't been that good post-ICL.

 

[GotSpin]

Both North and Hussey should have been dropped before the previous summer.

IMO, we've lost test matches because of one weakness, and that's our middle order. Mediocrity should not be accepted just because our ATGs have large finished up.

Whatever you say, statistics indicate that both North and Hussey have repeatedly failed. No Australian top 6 batsmen should average in the 30s. Dead stop

 

[pup11]

Both North and Hussey should have been dropped before the previous summer.

IMO, we've lost test matches because of one weakness, and that's our middle order. Mediocrity should not be accepted just because our ATGs have large finished up.

Whatever you say, statistics indicate that both North and Hussey have repeatedly failed. No Australian top 6 batsmen should average in the 30s. Dead stop

If Hussey was to be dropped then its should have been done during or after the Ashes 2009 and instead of North a young player should have been picked.
Now with the Ashes series so near, its pretty optimistic to expect either Ferguson or Khawaja to walk out at the Gabba and start playing match winning knocks on such a big stage.
I would give both Hussey and North atleast the 1st test to turn things around and if they fail then fair enough, we should then look elsewhere.
Also don't think this anybody-but-him attitude is really going to take the team anywhere, Hussey, North and Hauritz are struggling at present but there isn't anyone who is definitely better then these guys with whom they can be replaced at present, so that is something that should be taken into account when calls for them being dropped are made.

 

[GotSpin]

If Hussey was to be dropped then its should have been done during or after the Ashes 2009 and instead of North a young player should have been picked.
Now with the Ashes series so near, its pretty optimistic to expect either Ferguson or Khawaja to walk out at the Gabba and start playing matching knocks on such a big stage.
I would give both Hussey and North atleast the 1st test to turn things around and if they fail then fair enough, we should then look elsewhere.
Also don't think this anybody-but-him attitude is really going to take the team anywhere, Hussey, North and Hauritz are struggling at present but there isn't anyone who is definitely better then these guys with whom they can be replaced at present, so that is something that should be taken into account when calls for them being dropped are made.

Agree with both of these points.

I wouldn't expect Ferguson to, but Khawaja, why not. He's been doing very well in FC cricket.

For Brisbane Id have

Katich
Watto
Khawaja
Clarke
Ponting
Ron
Haddin
Johnson
Hilfenhaus
Harris
Bollinger

Won't happen but that side is certainly an improvement IMO. Dropped Ponting down to bolster the middle order and groom Khawaja into that no.3 position

 

[howardj]

North has scored 100's in South Africa, India and England probably three of the toughest test teams in their own backyard and has 5 test centuries all away from home, so he is hardly a bottom scrapper.
Yeah, he has been pretty inconsistent and that's one of things he can work on, but hasn't that been the case with most Australian batsmen!? So why just single him or Hussey out!?
Hussey is 35 but don't know why you should hold that against him when it comes to turning his form around or improving, and likes of Laxman, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Chanderpaul, Jayawardene, Mohd Yousuf would also vouch for that.
Also, made my views regarding Khawaja pretty clear, I think he is good player but I have a few reservations over his technique, and though stats show a player's caliber to a large extent but that shouldn't be the only barometer for international selection.

Because they average in the 30s

Hussey for the last three years, and North over the course of more than 20 Tests ( a very sizeable sample)!

As Got Spin said, "no Australian top 6 batsmen should average in the 30s. Dead stop".

 

[Flem274*]

What if Usman Khawaja averages in the 30s?

I realise Australia has pretty high standards, and one of North and Hussey probably should go (I'd drop Hussey), but throwing Khawaja and Smith in at once is asking for trouble. Also, you can't replace all time greats. Australia still has good players, but dropping them for not averaging 40 and blaming everything on the middle order is very one dimensional. Did the middle order fail to remove VVS Laxman and the mighty Ishant Sharma and Pragyan Ojha?

General Australian public reaction (so extending beyond CW) to the decline of the test side reminds me strongly of whenever the All Blacks lost in years gone by: The other team didn't win, we played ****.

 

[91Jmay]

Don't get the hype around Fergusson. Limited technically, poor FC average. Maybe he is the Aussie version of a Morgan pick (which i'm still not convinced about at test level).

 

[Howe_zat]

Don't get the hype around Fergusson. Limited technically, poor FC average. Maybe he is the Aussie version of a Morgan pick (which i'm still not convinced about at test level).

I think that's the aim. But even then, Ferguson is nowhere near as accomplished in limited overs cricket as Morgan.

 

[social]

I think that's the aim. But even then, Ferguson is nowhere near as accomplished in limited overs cricket as Morgan.

Untrue

Ferguson averages 46 in ODIs and it could be argued that Morgan's success is as much to do with the lack of slips (guy is shockingly loose outside the off stump in longer formats) as anything

 

[Howe_zat]

I'm with you on Morgan as a Test player - unconvinced - but he has achieved much more than Ferguson in LO cricket. He has four ODI centuries, ten fifties, and has rescued England from the mire many times. He was also a key part of the World T20 winning side, and still averages 52 in T20Is, strike rate 140.

 

[social]

Reckon they're both ridiculously overrated tbh as technical and/or mental deficiencies are all to apparent in both

 

[Xuhaib]

About the Aamer thing, There are 4 categories of gifted pacers IMHO,

1.Bowlers who come on to the international scene looking extremely talented and bowling at a 'great' level already. These might go on to become great bowlers or become dire soon

2. Bowlers such as Asif/Bond where it is obvious that they are not one-year wonders but due to some circumstance(bodily or otherwise) have careers which have few appearances and they usually perform when they come out to play and the loss to the cricketing world is clear.

3.Bowlers such as Akthar/Bishop who do not have a full fledged ATG career but have played enough matches to leave a footprint behind in the field of fast bowling.

4.ATG bowlers like Donald/McG who play a lot of matches and take a feckload of wickets and are remembered forever.

With Category 2,3 & 4, There is absolutely no doubt that the bowler is insanely talented - as much to become a fast bowling great.

However with Category 1, there is always a chance that the bowler would have/will turn into a significantly worse bowler after a promising start. I don't think we can put Aamer in the 'definitely would have been an ATG bowler given circumstances permitted' category yet. His biggest achievement is taking 30 wickets in 6 games at 20 in England but to be fair, they were extremely bowler friendly conditions.

A certain Sreesanth hit the world of fast bowling with a similar impressive start with awesome series' against England in India and in South Africa. We all know what happened later.

2 of his 3 Fifers were reverse swing spells rather then taking just the advantage of the pitch, his biggest strength was how he was adding something new to his bowling in every series just looking at him one felt the upside potential.Anyways the horse has bolted.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Reckon they're both ridiculously overrated tbh as technical and/or mental deficiencies are all to apparent in both

I agree,think both are good one day players who have flaws that mean the longer game is not for them.Still quality players in limited overs games though.

 

[Jono]

Critics have an inflated opinion

Good article

 

[howardj]

[QUOTE2381604]Critics have an inflated opinion

Good article[/QUOTE]

Now, on rankings, Australia has the fifth-best Test team in the world, and it's all the selectors' fault. Give me a break, please

You know an article is struggling when sentences like that are written.

Because people are criticising the selectors, that means that they are saying it's all their fault?

The selectors are wankers and deserve criticism - clinging to dear life to players averaging in the 30s, and putting us back to where we were four years ago....full of oldies, except this time we're ranked fifth, not 1st.

Selectors can't always, if ever, be blamed for losing. But they can be blamed for selecting a team that's old and losing.