Yasir Shah tests positive for banned substance

[smash84]

It is if he received any drug training in my book.

I believe that cheating has an element of willful commitment to a particular course of action.

Ignorance is not an excuse but your definition of cheating is not correct i think.

 

[Stefan9]

I believe that cheating has an element of willful commitment to a particular course of action.

Ignorance is not an excuse but your definition of cheating is not correct i think.

My opinion if he received durg training he can't claim ignorance. So I don't buy the ignorance excuse.

Its as poor as the cronje the devil made me do it excuse back in the day...

 

[smash84]

My opinion if he received durg training he can't claim ignorance. So I don't buy the ignorance excuse.

Its as poor as the cronje the devil made me do it excuse back in the day...

You not buying the excuse is irrelevant. It doesn't mean that ignorance and cheating are the same thing.

If you don't buy his excuse is another matter. Which i don't either. But from a technical stand point you are just plain wrong. There's no harm in admitting it

 

[Burner]

Drugsir Shah

 

[Stefan9]

You not buying the excuse is irrelevant. It doesn't mean that ignorance and cheating are the same thing.

If you don't buy his excuse is another matter. Which i don't either. But from a technical stand point you are just plain wrong. There's no harm in admitting it

If you know what you are doing and still do that is willful. If he received drug training then he should be aware what is suppose to do. If he ignores that it is willful and is cheating...

 

[smash84]

If you know what you are doing and still do that is willful. If he received drug training then he should be aware what is suppose to do. If he ignores that it is willful and is cheating...

Assumption is he ignores it. What if he doesn't ignore it? He forgets it. Then? How does that become wilful?

 

[Compton]

Assumption is he ignores it. What if he doesn't ignore it? He forgets it. Then? How does that become wilful?

He forgets that he's not supposed to take drugs without checking?

 

[smash84]

He forgets that he's not supposed to take drugs without checking?

That he forgets certain drugs. I am assuming there is not just one or a handful of drugs on that list?

Secondly, the point is let's say someone got acute amnesia or something they will have forgotten something.

Which is NOT the same as cheating. Was Yasir cheating? I think he was. Does that mean that ignorance and cheating are the same thing? NO. Its not that hard to understand.

There is a difference between cheating and ignorance. For people who don't understand just refer to merriam webster or the oxford dictionary.

 

[Athlai]

Ignorance over something you should be informed about could certainly be seen as willful. Yes you didn't mean to, but that doesn't excuse you.

I wouldn't necessarily frame that as cheating however.

Doing it on purpose is cheating.
Doing it on accident is negligence.

Both should be punished.

 

[smash84]

Ignorance over something you should be informed about could certainly be seen as willful. Yes you didn't mean to, but that doesn't excuse you.

I wouldn't necessarily frame that as cheating however.

Doing it on purpose is cheating.
Doing it on accident is negligence.

Both should be punished.

Thank you for articulating it better

 

[Grumpy]

I'm inclined to agree, but we do have a problem reconciling point 1 with point 2.

Using a banned diuretic to mask PEDs use is probably unnecessary if they knew what they were doing. So there was indeed some level of incompetence.

Why would it be unnecessary? All diuretics are banned unless the athlete applies for exemption because of a medical condition. It would be much easier to argue for leniency with a duretic in the sample than a steroid

 

[hendrix]

Why would it be unnecessary? All diuretics are banned unless the athlete applies for exemption because of a medical condition. It would be much easier to argue for leniency with a duretic in the sample than a steroid

There are plenty of non-banned diuretics, but apart from that I think the concept of flushing out PEDs with diuretics is a bit archaic when most of the PEDs aren't detectable by the testing methods if you apply a bit of common sense.

 

[cnerd123]

There are plenty of non-banned diuretics, but apart from that I think the concept of flushing out PEDs with diuretics is a bit archaic when most of the PEDs aren't detectable by the testing methods if you apply a bit of common sense.

I remember reading on r/MMA about 'Boutique' steroids - basically custom made concoctions that are different enough from mainstream PEDs that they dont get detected/aren't on the banned list, but still provide most if not all the same benefits.

Surely if someone really wanted to dope, they would just go down that route yea?

 

[hendrix]

I remember reading on r/MMA about 'Boutique' steroids - basically custom made concoctions that are different enough from mainstream PEDs that they dont get detected/aren't on the banned list, but still provide most if not all the same benefits.

Surely if someone really wanted to dope, they would just go down that route yea?

I think there will be a way to detect "boutique" steroids routinely in the future - a comprehensive Mass Spec method and then some type of programming that automatically picks up analogs of the known PEDs - e.g. detect and sequence every username on cricketweb, find a poster called Zooraks and infer by its sound that it's going to like everyone's post. But that would be very expensive to detect every molecule routinely. Mass spec needs to become a lot cheaper for this to happen.

But even aside from that - the levels of naturally occurring hormones need to be accurately recorded, and then some type of judgement must be made. So you have 50% higher free T than the average male; have you been taking testosterone or are you just in the normal bell curve range? etc etc with a whole range of different, interacting hormones (not just *** hormones).

 

[Grumpy]

There are plenty of non-banned diuretics, but apart from that I think the concept of flushing out PEDs with diuretics is a bit archaic when most of the PEDs aren't detectable by the testing methods if you apply a bit of common sense.

Hmm, fair enough. But wouldn't more athletes be inclined to take PEDs if it's as easy to get away with it as you are implying?

 

[hendrix]

But wouldn't more athletes be inclined to take PEDs if it's as easy to get away with it as you are implying?

Most athletes do tbh. I would guess that every single sprinter and weightlifter in the last olympic games was cheating.

 

[marc71178]

Go **** yourself.

I was providing a fact about Pakistan and not justifying anything. In fact I think Yasir Shah should be banned.

Erm what? If your fact was really and honestly not attempting to justify anything, why post it as it is totally irrelevant.

 

[Daemon]

Erm what? If your fact was really and honestly not attempting to justify anything, why post it as it is totally irrelevant.

It was in reply to this I think

Not totally sure here, but pretty sure I have read Yasir is from a pretty decent well off family, yep their is players in the side who are from very poor backgrounds with little education, but confident that Yasir isn't one of those. I will wait for some of the Pakistani posters to confirm though.

 

[Starfighter]

Three months, according to Cricinfo

Yasir banned for three months | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Three months, according to Cricinfo

Yasir banned for three months | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

That seems extremely leniant.