World's Greatest Cricket Legend

[age_master]

with a mid 50's batting average and a SR of 90 who else would you pick

 

[archie mac]

with a mid 50's batting average and a SR of 90 who else would you pick

I would think with an all-time world 11 I would have plenty of batting, so I might be tempted to pick the WK on his WK ability alone. I don't think Gilly is the best keeper just the best Batsman/WK.

 

[social]

Agreed. It is the power of advertising and global inter-connectedness with communications technology.
I am not judging as to who deserves the spot and who doesnt......i am merely pointing out who HAS the most penetration around world public......And in that case, a player of Tendulkar's callibre and era has far bigger scope of creating a legend than Bradman does.This is not a question of how it should be or what it should be...the question of this thread is about what is.

Shoaib- i wont bother with your so-called matchwinning crap. There is no such thing as a matchwinning knock- you can either bat well or bat poorly. But nobody wins a match on their own and others have to carry their weight. The best 'matchwinning' knock described in recent times around here is either Laxman's 281 or Lara's 153* but neither of them would've been matchwinning if Harbhajan and Walsh didnt pull their weight and do their thing.
But the point is, OVERALL market penetration and legend status. Tendulkar already has more fans than any cricketer on the planet...a case can also be made about his popularity even ignorning home fans..... there are tendy fanatics out there who hold him in reverence that even Bradman or Sobers struggle to achieve...... India is a cricket-mad nation and i dont think you'll see the stockmarket grinding to a halt in any nation simply because of a solitary sportsman...I've had my train delayed due to Tendy batting and the driver not wanting to miss it - and this isnt some local train but an express train.
Plus like i said, Tendulkar being the undisputed king of the 90s( ie, at the start of this whole globalisation stuff) alongwith his alltime legend status, he has awareness in places where nobody knows anything about cricket.

There is little doubt that Tendulkar is "known" by a higher proportion of the world's population than Bradman ever was (extensive advertising campaigns in the USA and China will tend to do that for you).

However, Tendy's impact in cricket playing countries was miniscule compared to "the Don." Instances such as train delays, work stoppages, front page headlines, etc were EVERYDAY occurrences during Bradman's career, extending even to Sheffield Shield and tour matches.

Whilst not wishing to detract from Tendulkar's career, the world's awareness of him is symptomatic of the times rather than a commentary of his standing.

 

[SJS]

With tongue firmly in cheek.......

Can not remember reading that about CB Fry, if you can recall where you read that I would like to have a look at the context.

I really think you can only be compared with your contemporaries and WG was almost twice as good as any of his. In 1895 (aged 47) when well past his best and with some great batsman around he was still the best.
I agree that Sobers is an all time great, and would always be in my greatest team. I just don't think he strode the Cricket world like Grace or Bradman.

Every one of Sachin's ODI hundreds and 26 of his test hundreds have been scored with bowlers being blackmailed by mafia Dons to let him slaughter them !!

I know for a fact since I personally overheard D. Ibrahim, Chhota S and Chhota R (all those from the sub-continent will recognise these three Godfathers) planning this in a hotel in Mumbai.

You dont believe me ?

Go and ask them....

....then I will go and check with Charles Fry

 

[social]

Agreed. It is the power of advertising and global inter-connectedness with communications technology.
I am not judging as to who deserves the spot and who doesnt......i am merely pointing out who HAS the most penetration around world public......And in that case, a player of Tendulkar's callibre and era has far bigger scope of creating a legend than Bradman does.This is not a question of how it should be or what it should be...the question of this thread is about what is.

Shoaib- i wont bother with your so-called matchwinning crap. There is no such thing as a matchwinning knock- you can either bat well or bat poorly. But nobody wins a match on their own and others have to carry their weight. The best 'matchwinning' knock described in recent times around here is either Laxman's 281 or Lara's 153* but neither of them would've been matchwinning if Harbhajan and Walsh didnt pull their weight and do their thing.
But the point is, OVERALL market penetration and legend status. Tendulkar already has more fans than any cricketer on the planet...a case can also be made about his popularity even ignorning home fans..... there are tendy fanatics out there who hold him in reverence that even Bradman or Sobers struggle to achieve...... India is a cricket-mad nation and i dont think you'll see the stockmarket grinding to a halt in any nation simply because of a solitary sportsman...I've had my train delayed due to Tendy batting and the driver not wanting to miss it - and this isnt some local train but an express train.
Plus like i said, Tendulkar being the undisputed king of the 90s( ie, at the start of this whole globalisation stuff) alongwith his alltime legend status, he has awareness in places where nobody knows anything about cricket.

There is little doubt that Tendulkar is "known" by a higher proportion of the world's population than Bradman ever was (extensive advertising campaigns in the USA and China will tend to do that for you).

However, Tendy's impact in cricket playing countries was miniscule compared to "the Don." Instances such as train delays, work stoppages, front page headlines, etc were EVERYDAY occurrences during Bradman's career, extending even to Sheffield Shield and tour matches.

Whilst not wishing to detract from Tendulkar's career, the world's awareness of him is symptomatic of the times rather than a reflection of his standing in the cricket fraternity.

 

[social]

I would think with an all-time world 11 I would have plenty of batting, so I might be tempted to pick the WK on his WK ability alone. I don't think Gilly is the best keeper just the best Batsman/WK.

In which case, it's almost impossible to justify the selection of any all-rounder.

We should just pick the 6 best batsmen, the best gloveman, and the 4 best bowlers.

Unfortunately, that leaves the team a batsman AND bowler short.

 

[archie mac]

Every one of Sachin's ODI hundreds and 26 of his test hundreds have been scored with bowlers being blackmailed by mafia Dons to let him slaughter them !!

I know for a fact since I personally overheard D. Ibrahim, Chhota S and Chhota R (all those from the sub-continent will recognise these three Godfathers) planning this in a hotel in Mumbai.

You dont believe me ?

Go and ask them....

....then I will go and check with Charles Fry

Yes, and may I say that SJS has been working very hard, and his brother is a shrink

 

[SJS]

Yes, and may I say that SJS has been working very hard, and his brother is a shrink

How do you know about my brother ?

 

[archie mac]

In which case, it's almost impossible to justify the selection of any all-rounder.

We should just pick the 6 best batsmen, the best gloveman, and the 4 best bowlers.

Unfortunately, that leaves the team a batsman AND bowler short.

I not sure I follow your logic, when I pick an all-time team; I pick 5 batsman 4 bowlers 1 A/R and 1 WK.

The point I was trying to make was: A great keeper but not a great batsman, takes a catch that only a great keeper can, which dismisses the other sides top batsman for 0. Where if he was not dismissed and went on to score 204. The keeper has in effect just made a double ton.

 

[archie mac]

How do you know about my brother ?

He was concerned about you and sent me an E-mail

You told me in a post once, when I asked was anyone a psychiatrist. You said you would be the best qualified as your brother and sister in law were leading psychiatrists in London.

 

[SJS]

I not sure I follow your logic, when I pick an all-time team; I pick 5 batsman 4 bowlers 1 A/R and 1 WK.

The point I was trying to make was: A great keeper but not a great batsman, takes a catch that only a great keeper can, which dismisses the other sides top batsman for 0. Where if he was not dismissed and went on to score 204. The keeper has in effect just made a double ton.

One can pick a dozen top keepers of all time and not find a place for Gilchrist.

If battiing has to be a criteria for selection of a team, there would be only all rounders, if enough were available. So we should have an all time world XI reading something like

Rhodes, Mankad, Bradman, Hammond, Sobers, Mankad, Walcott, Miller, Botham, Imran, Goddard, Kapil, Hadlee

Imagine 9 bowlers, 11 batsmen AND a wicket keeper . Its like getting two teams from one

 

[C_C]

Every one of Sachin's ODI hundreds and 26 of his test hundreds have been scored with bowlers being blackmailed by mafia Dons to let him slaughter them !!

I know for a fact since I personally overheard D. Ibrahim, Chhota S and Chhota R (all those from the sub-continent will recognise these three Godfathers) planning this in a hotel in Mumbai.

You dont believe me ?

Go and ask them....

....then I will go and check with Charles Fry

Quit playing the ****, SJS.
Your lil parody here is reminiscent of someone in denial. Much like your denial in relations to the chucking controversy.
What you are alleging is not an 'open secret' or a common practice in cricket today. What i've said was said by CB Fry, one of the people who profiteered from such activities!
Its like saying we are all slaves in essence because we work for some employers who over-work us and therefore, the slavery of the blacks is no big deal and didnt happen.

 

[SJS]

One can pick a dozen top keepers of all time and not find a place for Gilchrist.

If battiing has to be a criteria for selection of a team, there would be only all rounders, if enough were available. So we should have an all time world XI reading something like

Rhodes, Mankad, Bradman, Hammond, Sobers, Mankad, Walcott, Miller, Botham, Imran, Goddard, Kapil, Hadlee

Imagine 9 bowlers, 11 batsmen AND a wicket keeper . Its like getting two teams from one

Just in case you are wondering what a 'uni-faceted' moron like Bradman is doing in that list, well he is the final guarantee of winning every game...he was better than match fixers, he fixed umpires

 

[C_C]

clearly with the one vote people agree with you

Bradman's achievements in the game im quite sure will never be equaled.

Tendulkar on the other hand, is more a fad in the history of the game.

Again, this isnt about who achieved what, but the mystique surrounding the players...which is totally different and based on public perceptions.
For eg, Ayerton Senna achieved a lot less than Prost or Schumacher but his mystique in Formula1 cannot be rivalled. Same with John McEnroe and Tennis.
Same with Pavel Bure and Hockey. Same with Bobby Fischer and chess. Same with Dennis Rodman and basketball.
This isnt about greatness...this is about the legend, the mystique and the reputation/reverence.

 

[C_C]

Can not remember reading that about CB Fry, if you can recall where you read that I would like to have a look at the context.

I really think you can only be compared with your contemporaries and WG was almost twice as good as any of his. In 1895 (aged 47) when well past his best and with some great batsman around he was still the best.
I agree that Sobers is an all time great, and would always be in my greatest team. I just don't think he strode the Cricket world like Grace or Bradman.

Disagree about comparing with the contemporaries only.
That makes an assumption that if the player were present today, a more intense scrutiny of their technique/style wouldnt reveal any flaws and they would be just as successful.
I am comparing playing abilities empirically and cricket playing ability empirically 150 years ago was nowhere close to what it is in the modern times...in that case, since you can be only compared to your contemporaries, some hobnob batsman in 1600s is equivalent to Lara/Tendulkar and some hobnob underarm bowler is equivalent to Malcolm Marshall.
And Sobers was the UNDISPUTED allrounder of his time, easily equivalent of WG Grace of the 50s/60s/70s. No allrounder came within half a distance of him- his fielding/catching were hall of famer category, his bowling was pretty good and his batsmanship was easily the best of his generation.

I read the comments of CB Fry on the book called 'a social history of English cricket' by Derek Birley.

 

[archie mac]

One can pick a dozen top keepers of all time and not find a place for Gilchrist.

If battiing has to be a criteria for selection of a team, there would be only all rounders, if enough were available. So we should have an all time world XI reading something like

Rhodes, Mankad, Bradman, Hammond, Sobers, Mankad, Walcott, Miller, Botham, Imran, Goddard, Kapil, Hadlee

Imagine 9 bowlers, 11 batsmen AND a wicket keeper . Its like getting two teams from one

A great side, I would love to see you telling some of them their position in the batting line up.

 

[C_C]

There is little doubt that Tendulkar is "known" by a higher proportion of the world's population than Bradman ever was (extensive advertising campaigns in the USA and China will tend to do that for you).

However, Tendy's impact in cricket playing countries was miniscule compared to "the Don." Instances such as train delays, work stoppages, front page headlines, etc were EVERYDAY occurrences during Bradman's career, extending even to Sheffield Shield and tour matches.

Whilst not wishing to detract from Tendulkar's career, the world's awareness of him is symptomatic of the times rather than a reflection of his standing in the cricket fraternity.

I've never heard of train delays, major work stoppages, stock market shutting down etc. due to bradman.... And Bradman didnt impact the populace of as many Test playing nations as Tendy did- atleast, not in his career.Tendulkar's popularity is sky high in almost every cricket-playing country, except for perhaps Pakistan. Bradman's mystique is built predominantly around ENG and AUS, with certain appreciation from India and South Africa. Bradman's popularity wasnt sky high... he wasnt 'ultra-popular' in South Africa, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh..........

The legend, the mystique, the myth and the fairytale is based on public perception and reverence. That isnt necessarily proportional to how good or bad a player is, simply because the bulk of the cricket-mad public is largely ignorant of the finer points of statistics, accomplishments, etc. And as i've given examples above, often the mystique surrounding the player has very little correlation to how good he actually was.

 

[Dasa]

Whilst not wishing to detract from Tendulkar's career, the world's awareness of him is symptomatic of the times rather than a reflection of his standing in the cricket fraternity.

The legend, the mystique, the myth and the fairytale is based on public perception and reverence. That isnt necessarily proportional to how good or bad a player is, simply because the bulk of the cricket-mad public is largely ignorant of the finer points of statistics, accomplishments, etc. And as i've given examples above, often the mystique surrounding the player has very little correlation to how good he actually was.

You both seem to be saying basically the same thing here. Many people are mistaking the merits of the player in question with their status as legends (whether correct or not). Bradman was the best, but Tendulkar is much more well-known.

 

[SJS]

A great side, I would love to see you telling some of them their position in the batting line up.

Well Rhodes and Mankad are the only two openers. So that settles that.
Bradman at 3, Hammond at 4, Walcott at 5 and Sobers at 6 is also undisputed. I would put Goddard at 7, ask Miller and Botham to toss up for the next two positions and Imran and Hadlee to toss up for the last two

Mankad
Rhodes
Bradman
Hammond
Walcott
Sobers
Goddard
Miller
Botham
Imran
Hadlee

12th man : Kapil Dev

 

[Burpey]

I'm sure all of them would say they're fine with it while silently plotting revenge against you ...