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Will Chanderapul be considered an all time great?

slowfinger

State Captain
How come I have never heard Chanderpaul himself speak on the topic? I would love to see it from his point of view.
 

OverratedSanity

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Ya I haven't watched many of Chanders' innings with the tail, but today he really looked selfish. It wasn't a hopeless situation too. If you're trailing by more than 100 in the 3rd innings with 2 wickets to go then I can understand this behavior because if a tailender doesn't play a blinder you have no chance of saving. But when you are ahead by 120 with 2 wickets to go, every run counts. You should potect your tail in such a situation IMO.
He didn't even try to hide it today imo. He's potentially cost his side 40-50 precious runs.

I'm all for trying to give the tail some strike to give them confidence, like VVS and Waugh used to do, but Shiv just hides, atleast today, it was crystal clear. Red ink at it's worst.
 
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Niall

Cricketer Of The Year
Agreed. Sanga's batting with the tail was fantastic in the current Lanka test, tried to protect them as best as he could, really highlighted how selfish Shiv was today.

From cricinfo...

From Ramdin's wicket. Chanderpaul faced 8 out of 40 deliveries. That's not good enough I'm afraid"
 
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slowfinger

State Captain
I think we do become a bit harsh towards Chanderpaul as well. I think noone here would say that he's a test ATG, despite the fact that he has scored more test 50's than anyone bar Sachin, statistically he is the greatest West Indian batsman ever, or close to, and people wouldn't even place him in their top 10 West Indian batsmen of all time?

That is actually disrespectful. How many times has he dug his team out of a hole? It's the way he bats, he doesn't treat anyone differently, everyone should know how to hold up an end. Whether or not he was playing for a red inker or not is debateable, but one thing is crystal, when he leaves the test stage then WI cricket is going to have to dtep up big time or else they will plummet.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I haven't seen the knock so I can't comment yet OS.Judging by how many balls the tail faced before getting out though I'm not sure shielding them would have done much. Sangakkara regularly gave his bunnies (and they are bunnies) 2-3 balls an over to face. Jerome Taylor lasted two balls, Benn four, Gabriel ten and Holder a whopping sixteen.

He may well have screwed up. I didn't see it so I don't know, but the tail do need to face a couple of balls every over and it doesn't look like the West Indian tail were up to that anyway.
 

MrPrez

International Debutant
The one thing you can't criticise Chanders for is digging deep when the chips are down. So he had one bad innings with the tail today - so what? The guy is way past it anyway - he has been utter trash this whole series. Are you going to criticise nearly 2 decades of grit and guts because he buggered up one innings with the tail today? It's way too easy to pull out one innings and say "this is why he's bad." How about pulling out the countless great knocks that he played with the rest of the WI batting line-up looking shaky?

Crikey, lets take Steyn's one bowling performance where he went wicketless earlier in the series and say "that's why I think this lad is just unreliable in the wickets department."
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The one thing you can't criticise Chanders for is digging deep when the chips are down. So he had one bad innings with the tail today - so what? The guy is way past it anyway - he has been utter trash this whole series. Are you going to criticise nearly 2 decades of grit and guts because he buggered up one innings with the tail today? It's way too easy to pull out one innings and say "this is why he's bad." How about pulling out the countless great knocks that he played with the rest of the WI batting line-up looking shaky?

Crikey, lets take Steyn's one bowling performance where he went wicketless earlier in the series and say "that's why I think this lad is just unreliable in the wickets department."
I don't think anybody here is saying what you think they are saying.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Chanderpaul is a second-tier ATG batsman who clearly would rather get a nice not out than bat to protect the tail. It counts against him but he's still good.
 

Blocky

Banned
The only reason I'd mark him down is post retirement of guys like Lara, he's so often "the last man standing" yet has never made a real go of being #3 or #4 for his team - most of his innings come at #5 and #6 when recently that's meant the team has already lost.

I wonder if he holds the record for playing under the most captains? 13 including himself.
 
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fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The only reason I'd mark him down is post retirement of guys like Lara, he's so often "the last man standing" yet has never made a real go of being #3 or #4 for his team - most of his innings come at #5 and #6 when recently that's meant the team has already lost.
This has always surprised me too - initially I assumed he had some fundamental issue with batting up the order and facing the new ball, but then when he came to Lancashire in 2010 he batted at four, and our batting then (as now) was absolutely woeful so he was generally at the crease very early on, and he was just as effective as ever
 

kykweer.proteas

International Debutant
He had a disappointing(entertaining) end to his innings today, and no one can take away what he has achieved in an underachieving team for the last 10-15 years of batting with woefully inept tailenders. Just the fact that HE has all those Not Outs, emphasizes that question of "If not Shiv, then who else should bat with the tail?"

I think he is just one step closer to retirement in the fact that he has pretty much given up the fight.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I love how we're criticising a batsman for not giving his wicket away and staying not out.

I think Chanderpaul would be more highly rated if he'd had any sort of memorable innings in a victory from the last 15 years. It's hard to rate a guy too highly when all his good innings are basically "Chanderpaul fought valiantly and scored a century as the West Indies capitulated to a 10 wicket/innings and 17 million run defeat".
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
I love how we're criticising a batsman for not giving his wicket away and staying not out.

I think Chanderpaul would be more highly rated if he'd had any sort of memorable innings in a victory from the last 15 years. It's hard to rate a guy too highly when all his good innings are basically "Chanderpaul fought valiantly and scored a century as the West Indies capitulated to a 10 wicket/innings and 17 million run defeat".
The criticism isn't that he's not out, the criticism is that he frequently makes zero effort to shepherd the tail. It doesn't stop him from being an ATG, but it's an undeniable flaw in his game.
 

viriya

International Captain
I think even if you think he cared more about preserving his average over the team's cause, you can't really say he's not an ATG now considering his accomplishments.
 

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