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Why was Malcolm Marshall so middling in ODIs?

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Regardless of his numbers he's considered one of the best ODI bats ever and probably wouldn't even make Australia's thirdATG XI in tests


Edit - just checked some threads. He was ranked the 10th best ODI batsman ever by CW in my ODI countdown thing

In NUFANs all time xi game he had to bat out of position at 5 in the Australia E XI

Huge difference in how he's viewed accross formats, perhaps unfairly
 
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trundler

Hall of Fame Member
The following guys would have to be ahead of him though:

Bradman, Ponting, Smith, Border, Chappell, Waugh, Hill, Harvey, McCabe, Macartney, Chappelli, Clarke, Hussey, and Walters.

Throw in Giffen, Noble, Armstrong, Miller etc and 4 teams before he appears is reasonable tbh.
 

Red

The artist formerly known as Monk
None of this indicates Jones wasn't a good test batsman. It just indicates Australia have had a lot of good middle order bats over a long period of time.
 

Migara

International Captain
In his era, with exception of Border, Jones was the best test batsman Australia had. Probably even better than Border.
 

Line and Length

International Debutant
The following guys would have to be ahead of him though:

Bradman, Ponting, Smith, Border, Chappell, Waugh, Hill, Harvey, McCabe, Macartney, Chappelli, Clarke, Hussey, and Walters.

Throw in Giffen, Noble, Armstrong, Miller etc and 4 teams before he appears is reasonable tbh.
There are a number you have named that I wouldn't rank above Jones as pure batsmen.
 

ataraxia

International Debutant
In NUFANs all time xi game he had to bat out of position at 5 in the Australia E XI
Australia XI:
1. VT Trumper
2. ML Hayden
3. DG Bradman *
4. GS Chappell
5. AR Border
6. KR Miller
7. AC Gilchrist +
8. RR Lindwall
9. SK Warne
10. DK Lillee
11. GD McGrath
Australia A XI
1. AR Morris
2. RB Simpson
3. RT Ponting
4. RN Harvey
5. SPD Smith
6. SR Waugh *
7. IA Healy +
8. AK Davidson
9. JN Gillespie
10. WJ Reilly
11. FR Spofforth
Australia B XI
1. WM Lawry
2. WH Ponsford
3. C Hill
4. SJ McCabe
5. MJ Clarke *
6. KD Walters
7. RW Marsh +
8. MG Johnson
9. CBT Turner
10. CV Grimmett
11. JR Thomson
Australia C XI
1. WM Woodfull
2. JL Langer
3. CG Macartney
4. AL Hassett
5. MEK Hussey
6. MA Noble
7. RB Benaud *
8. WAS Oldfield +
9. RJ Harris
10. GD McKenzie
11. WA Johnston
Australia D XI
1. DA Warner
2. SG Barnes
3. IM Chappell *
4. DR Martyn
5. ME Waugh
6. WW Armstrong
7. JM Gregory
8. D Tallon +
9. H Trumble
10. CJ McDermott
11. TM Alderman
Australia E XI
1. MA Taylor *
2. W Bardsley
3. DC Boon
4. NCL O'Neill
5. DM Jones
6. J Ryder
7. G Giffen
8. JM Blackham +
9. MG Hughes
10. SCG MacGill
11. BA Reid
Australia F XI
1. MJ Slater
2. A Jackson
3. IR Redpath
4. RM Cowper
5. DS Lehmann *
6. SR Watson
7. BJ Haddin +
8. B Lee
9. JR Hazlewood
10. NM Lyon
11. JJ Ferris
Australia G XI
1. WA Brown
2. HL Collins *
3. GN Yallop
4. KJ Hughes
5. SM Katich
6. WL Murdoch
7. GJ Gilmour
8. MA Starc
9. ATW Grout +
10. EA McDonald
11. H Ironmonger
Australia H XI
1. KR Stackpole
2. CC McDonald
3. BC Booth *
4. PJP Burge
5. VS Ransford
6. C Kelleway
7. H Carter +
8. DW Fleming
9. WJ Whitty
10. AA Mailey
11. RM Hogg
Australia I XI
1. RA Duff
2. JHW Fingleton
3. KC Wessels
4. UT Khawaja
5. AG Kippax
6. CL McCool
7. PR Reiffel
8. JJ Kelly +
9. MHN Walker
10. GF Lawson *
11. GE Palmer
Australia J XI
1. J Darling *
2. CLJ Rogers
3. GS Blewett
4. R Edwards
5. AC Voges
6. A Symonds
7. RG Archer
8. GRA Langley +
9. SR Clark
10. AN Connolly
11. JV Saunders
Australia K XI
1. RB McCosker
2. GR Marsh
3. FA Iredale
4. PS McDonnell *
5. SG Law
6. KD Mackay
7. WB Phillips +
8. A Cotter
9. PM Siddle
10. AA Mallett
11. ERH Toshack
Australia L XI
1. PA Jaques
2. C Bannerman
3. SE Marsh
4. BJ Hodge
5. DW Hookes *
6. GRJ Matthews
7. HV Horden
8. JL Pattinson
9. BN Jarman +
10. G Dymock
11. LS Pascoe
Australia M XI
1. GM Wood
2. PJ Hughes
3. AP Sheahan
4. GM Ritchie
5. SE Gregory *
6. MG Bevan
7. TD Paine +
8. NJN Hawke
9. AG Hurst
10. CG Rackemann
11. JB Iverson
Australia N XI
1. MTG Elliott
2. BM Laird
3. JW Burke
4. MJ North
5. JM Taylor
6. SJE Loxton
7. LV Maddocks +
8. PJ Cummins
9. IWG Johnson *
10. BW Hilfenhaus
11. E Jones
Australia O XI
1. AMJ Hilditch
2. AC Bannerman
3. ML Love
4. P Toohey
5. GJ Cosier
6. TM Moody
7. PM Nevill +
8. B Yardley
9. MS Kasprowicz
10. CR Miller
11. WM Clark
Quote for newer members (great exercise, would love for it to be repeated)
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I still think making the top 10 batsmen for all countries in ODIs vs making Australia's 6th best XI is an indication that at least in CW's eyes there is a huge gulf between Jones the ODI bat and Jones the test bat
 

Fuller Pilch

International Vice-Captain
In his era, with exception of Border, Jones was the best test batsman Australia had. Probably even better than Border.
Better than Border??? Border was up with Martin Crowe, Miandad, and Vengsakar as the best middle order bat in the world.

Dean Jones vs Andrew Jones (tests) would be an interesting comparison.
 

Migara

International Captain
Better than Border??? Border was up with Martin Crowe, Miandad, and Vengsakar as the best middle order bat in the world.

Dean Jones vs Andrew Jones (tests) would be an interesting comparison.
I said probably. During his day, he was a top batsman for Australia, let it be ODI or test.

Which Bevan never was, but Marshall who was with the ball. I rest my case there.
 

h_hurricane

International Regular
No it doesn't.
The point is, Bevan's bowling average in tests is so misleading. If we could take that as a reference and state that he was a better test cricketer than Marshall in ODIs, we could also go with the order which I mentioned (based on raw averages of course).
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
The point is, Bevan's bowling average in tests is so misleading. If we could take that as a reference and state that he was a better test cricketer than Marshall in ODIs, we could also go with the order which I mentioned (based on raw averages of course).
And I agree with you that it was misleading. It was probably just as misleading as his test batting average tbh.

You don't average 60 in the shield without having something special about you.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
yeah. either his averages are 29/24 and he's an ATG test all-rounder or we 'adjust' his 'misleading' stats to make him a 50 averaging batsman with an ugly part time bowling average of 40+


you can't have it both ways fellas
 

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