Why is pakistani bowling the most innovative in modern times?

[miscer]

Reverse swing, doosra? Probably the poor pitches? Necessity is the mother of invention

 

[Flem274*]

does it need to be? their home/neutral games support spin and sometimes accurate pace since forever, and they're pretty good at knocking sides over at home and leg breaks plus pace/swing work elsewhere so there's no real need for their bowling to reinvent the wheel to succeed.

they just need to keep their bowlers in the team without bans/injuries/changing their minds at random. it's the top 3 and their catching that hold the side back from rising above current mid-table anyways. Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Abbas and Yasir are all pretty good bowlers.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I'd say Sri Lanka's is/was. Murali, Mendis, and Malinga are all prime examples and they still produce mystery spinners.

 

[honestbharani]

They play a lot of tape ball cricket over there. Have seen it mentioned in many different places as the reason why they have had the fast bowling culture and innovations like reverse swing are ultimately a "gotta find a way" reaction given the pitches and conditions, I think.

And I am not sure there have been many other innovations from Pak other than doosra and reverse swing. The cross seam and other subtler inventions (like the Indian spinners trying to land the ball on the leather than the seam) seem to be happening elsewhere.

 

[TheJediBrah]

both reverse swing and doosra either require or are greatly enhanced by cheating

Aus are the real innovators no else thought to use sandpaper

 

[Flem274*]

Sky UK had a nice bit on what NZ call the three quarter ball and England the wobble seam ball and how it's wrecking left handers. Whoever was first out of Southee and Broad to use it is pretty influential in modern cricket. Dunno when Southee put away the off cutter for the three quarter. When did Broad start coming around the wicket to Warner?

 

[Starfighter]

And for all that Pakistan have debuted zero great bowlers in the past three decades.

 

[Flem274*]

And for all that Pakistan have debuted zero great bowlers in the past three decades.

Shoiab is great. Spam brigade can get rekt.

 

[Starfighter]

Shoiab is great. Spam brigade can get rekt.

Oh I rate Shoaib, but I don't quite consider he had the staying power to be considered truly great. Asif was quality but had other aims in the game, and Saqlain and Yasir have done decently for spinners in the modern era. The supporting cast has been an unending parade of trash though.

 

[ankitj]

It must be because they are not most professional. So they have to rely on their raw talent, passion and innovation. In a way professionalism may kill innovation (bum on couch philosophy there but whatever)

 

[Burgey]

Shoiab is great. Spam brigade can get rekt.

He's not great at all. Bloke had a heart the size of a split pea. A moderate upgrade on Atul Sharma.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sky UK had a nice bit on what NZ call the three quarter ball and England the wobble seam ball and how it's wrecking left handers. Whoever was first out of Southee and Broad to use it is pretty influential in modern cricket. Dunno when Southee put away the off cutter for the three quarter. When did Broad start coming around the wicket to Warner?

Wobble seam a new invention? Really?

 

[Starfighter]

Wobble seam a new invention? Really?

Moving the ball off the pitch is 'innovative' apparently.

I always find it funny that it's supposedly a Pakistan thing too, like Ambrose and Walsh didn't use a similar seam position through their whole careers.

 

[Flem274*]

Wobble seam a new invention? Really?

no, but the effect to left handers appears to be more pronounced than ever. it used to be conventional wisdom that going around to lefties was doomed to fail. i remember it becoming more frequent in the 00s and commentators getting on the soapbox about it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

no, but the effect to left handers appears to be more pronounced than ever. it used to be conventional wisdom that going around to lefties was doomed to fail. i remember it becoming more frequent in the 00s and commentators getting on the soapbox about it.

And before that it used to be conventional wisdom that going around the wicket to lefties was the thing to do. Using wobble seam for unpredictable variations off the pitch would have been around since before my grandfather was born

Sure maybe a few more bowlers are doing it more that they were in the previous decade but in no universe is it a new invention

 

[Flem274*]

And before that it used to be conventional wisdom that going around the wicket to lefties was the thing to do. Using wobble seam for unpredictable variations off the pitch would have been around since before my grandfather was born

Sure maybe a few more bowlers are doing it more that they were in the previous decade but in no universe is it a new invention

so once again we have to conclude conventional wisdom is a euphemism for people slow to accept change

 

[TheJediBrah]

so once again we have to conclude conventional wisdom is a euphemism for people slow to accept change

I look at it more as ebbs and flows. Things go in and out of style and whenever they come back into fashion the current generation thinks they invented it.

 

[Migara]

Four ATG pacers in Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Asif.
Two very good spinners in Saqlain, Mushtaq and Yasir
Aaqib Javed, Shoaib, Aamir, Razzaq all are decent
Kaneria and Rehman had their moments.

I'd say a healthy bowling pedigree. If Pakistani batsmen were bit supportive and fielding was not Meh then would have been a very strong bowling side for a long time.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Natural variation via wobble is a bit of a Hail Mary isn't it? Useful asset but not sure if credit redounds entirely to the bowler. Also seems to have messed with conventional release in the case of someone like Siraj.

 

[Slifer]

Four ATG pacers in Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Asif.
Two very good spinners in Saqlain, Mushtaq and Yasir
Aaqib Javed, Shoaib, Aamir, Razzaq all are decent
Kaneria and Rehman had their moments.

I'd say a healthy bowling pedigree. If Pakistani batsmen were bit supportive and fielding was not Meh then would have been a very strong bowling side for a long time.

No.