Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[Coronis]

Imran wouldn't have been selected as a batsman alone? You should probably write comics than wasting your time here Sir

Imran would not be selected as a pure batsman. He is definitely an ATG bowler, but his batting is not that good. Its the worst of the great all rounders besides Hadlee, imo.

Clearly you have no idea about cricket if you think Sobers is one of the worst bowlers. For one, cricket is about much more than statistics and two, Sobers bowling record isn't even that bad, statistically.

 

[Red]

Imran wouldn't have been selected as a batsman alone? You should probably write comics than wasting your time here Sir

Read my post. I said it's "questionable" whether he'd have made the **** side as a batsman.

Which means he might have, or mighn't have. Which I though was fairly clear.

Imran spent the majority of his career batting at 7 or 8. Most of the time, players who have been selected as batsmen don't bat this low.

 

[Red]

Read my post. I said it's "questionable" whether he'd have made the **** side as a batsman.

Which means he might have, or mighn't have. Which I though was fairly clear.

Imran spent the majority of his career batting at 7 or 8. Most of the time, players who have been selected as batsmen don't bat this low.

Is P...A...K...I on the swear filter?

 

[the big bambino]

The definition of an all rounder as one who can make the side as a batsman or bowler alone is pretty high imo. Perhaps even unachievable if the likes of Sobers and Imran don't qualify. Anyone whose batting ave is better than his bowling ave (given a few qualifying restrictions like no of runs/wkts taken) is a more realistic standard determining all round value I'd guess.

Sobers was a very very good bowler. And he could bowl the bloody lot too. A little better than the likes of Sami or Scott Muller and host of others in the last 50 years too, I'd have thought

 

[Red]

The definition of an all rounder as one who can make the side as a batsman or bowler alone is pretty high imo. Perhaps even unachievable if the likes of Sobers and Imran don't qualify. Anyone whose batting ave is better than his bowling ave (given a few qualifying restrictions like no of runs/wkts taken) is a more realistic standard determining all round value I'd guess.

Sobers was a very very good bowler. And he could bowl the bloody lot too. A little better than the likes of Sami or Scott Muller and host of others in the last 50 years too, I'd have thought

Yeh, I guess the point is that it is a really high criteria. Fwiw I think Sobers would have made the WI's team on bowling alone, and I believe when he was first selected it was primarily as a bowler.

On Miller, I think he's the most "genuine" all rounder ever. There is no doubt that he would've been picked in the Australian team as either a batsman OR a bowler. He was a genuine top 6 batsman and an opening bowler. The only other players that were capable of this were Jack Gregory and Ian Botham. Maybe Kapil.

I sort of categorize in to genuine all rounders, bowling all rounders and batting all rounders. It doesn't really matter though!

 

[smash84]

He is at worse comparable to Kallis, and we see how valuable he is to that team. Sobers bore a much greater burden and on much less responsive wickets for the most part. They were times he had to open the bowling and come back to play the role of stock bowler holding up an end and controlling the run rate, some times as a seamer sometimes as a spinner.
.

Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.

 

[marc71178]

Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.

Bollocks is it.

 

[Satyanash89]

E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.

You really want to go down this line of thinking?
Fine, then Imran Khan was about as good a batsman as Suresh Raina, that's what his record tells me

 

[smash84]

You really want to go down this line of thinking?
Fine, then Imran Khan was about as good a batsman as Suresh Raina, that's what his record tells me

how does his record tell you that btw?

and

Raina > Ishant any day

 

[kyear2]

Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.

By this argument Imran and Miller's batting average was similar to Carl Hooper's and similarily would have no place in an AT XI, makes no sence. The All Rounder is there to act as a top order batting specialist and the 5th bowler and as universally acknowled by All (including Smali in various threads not too long ago when he stated that as crickets there was Bradman, Sobers then everyone one else and Imran had as legitimate a case as anyone else for no. 3) there was no one better in that role than Sobers.

Regarding players who would have made their teams as a batsman or bowler, there is Sobers, Botham, Miller and for a brief time that Imran was injured and couldn't bowl he focused on and played as a batsman.

Sobers, Botham, Miller and as mentioned previously Chappell, Hammond, Kallis, MCcabe ect added even more value to their teams as they were also way above average, spectacular slip fielders. This is also one of the reasons that many choose Warne over Murali as it's an added dimension that he brings to a team.

 

[fredfertang]

Sobers' seam bowling was ideally suited to English conditions - have a look at his record in this country (not forgetting when he played for the Rest of the World in 1970) - his record for a third seamer is outstanding and I have no doubt at all that he'd have been picked here even if he was an out and out rabbit with the bat - that he wasn't good enough for that to apply elsewhere I'm happy to accept, but then there have been plenty of seam bowlers who have performed superbly here but rather less well overseas (Terry Alderman and Bob Massie being two who immediately spring to mind)

 

[H4G]

Imran would not be selected as a pure batsman. He is definitely an ATG bowler, but his batting is not that good. Its the worst of the great all rounders besides Hadlee, imo.

Clearly you have no idea about cricket if you think Sobers is one of the worst bowlers. For one, cricket is about much more than statistics and two, Sobers bowling record isn't even that bad, statistically.

By the later 2/3 of his career Imran had become an excellent batsman, better than likes of Miller, Botham & Kapil by leaps & bounds and would make any team with ease.You really need to get your facts right.

 

[H4G]

By this argument Imran and Miller's batting average was similar to Carl Hooper's and similarily would have no place in an AT XI, makes no sence. The All Rounder is there to act as a top order batting specialist and the 5th bowler and as universally acknowled by All (including Smali in various threads not too long ago when he stated that as crickets there was Bradman, Sobers then everyone one else and Imran had as legitimate a case as anyone else for no. 3) there was no one better in that role than Sobers.

Don' make your own definitions an allrounder. An allrounder can be an opening batsman & a 5th bowler and could also be an opening bowler & lower middle order batsman.If we take your definition into account then Sobers was also not a top order batsman

 

[H4G]

Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.

TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.

 

[Red]

By the later 2/3 of his career Imran had become an excellent batsman, better than likes of Miller, Botham & Kapil by leaps & bounds

Hahahahahahaha

TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.

Bahahahaha.

You're funny.

 

[H4G]

Hahahahahahaha

Bahahahaha.

You're funny.

Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.

 

[fredfertang]

Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.

.... although you do seem to have an irrational bias against Garry Sobers

 

[marc71178]

It's a general irrationality I think to be honest along with a tendency to spout what is commonly known as bollocks.

 

[Viscount Tom]

TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.

And your evidence for this that doesn't come from your missing chromosome is?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Isn't this just Precam or a troll of that ilk posting bollox. The rubbishing of Sobers bowling, the hero worshipping of Imran and exaggerated elevation of Viv Richards is feeding off the things that get mentioned (and ridiculed) quite often in genuine discussions.