Which Indian team do you think will win in a 5 test series ?

[trundler]

Plus a Garner bouncer would be virtually inescapable because of the bounce he generated off a length and how accurate he was.

 

[Borges]

Andy Roberts bouncer >> Garner bouncer.

 

[Burgey]

I tend to rate Holding lower than a number of other WI quicks, but a lot of people put him in the top tier. Obviously he’s no mug, but I think Roberts, Garner, Marshall and Ambrose are comfortably better and more skilful than he was. I’d rate Bishop and Walsh ahead of him too, but not by quite the same margin.

Plainly still a great bowler though.

 

[Kirkut]

Yeah kirkut seems to just ignore the fact he could shatter a ****ing nose.

Even a 130 kph ball can shatter a nose, you don't need to bowl at 95 mph for that.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

All of the great WI quicks were genuinely fast, just simply a cut above. Only genuine medium pacer to play in that era was Eldine Baptiste

 

[cnerd123]

There is fast in the air, and fast off the pitch.

How much of their pace had to do with playing on surfaces that encouraged that? Would they be as quick and threatening bowling on pitches like the MCG or SCG in the modern day? Would a modern 135kmph look as dangerous bowling on pitches back then?

 

[jimmy101]

I tend to rate Holding lower than a number of other WI quicks, but a lot of people put him in the top tier. Obviously he’s no mug, but I think Roberts, Garner, Marshall and Ambrose are comfortably better and more skilful than he was. I’d rate Bishop and Walsh ahead of him too, but not by quite the same margin.

Plainly still a great bowler though.

That's quite interesting really considering you've seen them all. Makes me rethink how I imagine the 70's/80's quicks, since I only started watching in the mid-90's. I guess people rated Holding so high (myself included) is because more of than not our only perception of him comes from watching old highlights packages. And anyone can look good in a highlights package.

All of the great WI quicks were genuinely fast, just simply a cut above. Only genuine medium pacer to play in that era was Eldine Baptiste

Don't forget fabulous Phil Simmons!

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Don't forget fabulous Phil Simmons!

More a batting allrounder but fair point

 

[Arachnodouche]

Phil Simmons has to be the most frustrated looking cricketer to have ever played. He looked like someone stole his wife and burned down his house every time he got out. A proto-Watto.

 

[jimmy101]

Holy crap. The numbers add up. Both were openers & batting all-rounders too. Eventually Shane Watson's nephew will probably play for Australia ala Lendl Simmons.

 

[Burgey]

That's quite interesting really considering you've seen them all. Makes me rethink how I imagine the 70's/80's quicks, since I only started watching in the mid-90's. I guess people rated Holding so high (myself included) is because more of than not our only perception of him comes from watching old highlights packages.l

It’s really a matter of preference I guess. Holding was crazy quick early on, but I never really thought he did a lot with it compared to Marshall, Roberts and Garner. Garner has a pretty devastating off cutter as well as his bounce and of course his Yorker. I probably only rate Walsh above Holding through sheer longevity - at their respective peaks I’d take Holding. Bishop I think could have been the best of the lot had he not got injured. Genuine heat, moved it away, tall fella who got excellent bounce too.

 

[jimmy101]

It’s really a matter of preference I guess. Holding was crazy quick early on, but I never really thought he did a lot with it compared to Marshall, Roberts and Garner. Garner has a pretty devastating off cutter as well as his bounce and of course his Yorker. I probably only rate Walsh above Holding through sheer longevity - at their respective peaks is take Holding. Bishop I think could have been the best of the lot had he not got injured. Genuine heat, moved it away, tall fella who got excellent bounce too.

I've seen footage of Bishop bowling in the late 80's and he looks like an absolute nightmare. Did you ever get a chance to see the much vaunted Sylvester Clarke? Bloke has insane FC stats, although the only footage I've really ever seen of him has Richie Benaud on comms going on the entire time about how he was much quicker than what we were seeing that day.

 

[Burgey]

There is fast in the air, and fast off the pitch.

How much of their pace had to do with playing on surfaces that encouraged that? Would they be as quick and threatening bowling on pitches like the MCG or SCG in the modern day? Would a modern 135kmph look as dangerous bowling on pitches back then?

Melbourne and Sydney in their day were, if anything, lower and slower than they are now. You can see footage on YouTube of Lillee bowling in Melbourne in the early 80s off four steps as a protest at how bad the deck was. Sydney just used to turn and had virtually nothing for quicks.

I mean, they won series everywhere, that outfit. Mind you, the run could have ended quickly - they had to come from 1-0 down here in 81/82 to square that series after the Kim and Dennis show in Melbourne

 

[Spark]

Yeah Melbourne has always been slow. But it hasn't always been this flat. Sydney certainly has quickened up over my time watching cricket.