What to do about tour matches

[TheJediBrah]

This is the crux of the matter, you think that it's alright for teams to actually go out of their way to sabotage a hosts preparation, and a great proportion of use do not.

The rest of what you say isn't worth addressing, being generally irrelevant to the original premise of the thread or disingenuous in the way you've swung things away from this point.

You've said this a lot better than I could. This is spot on. I don't know why Dan is talking about half the things he's bringing up here.

As Daemon said, this act by Pakistan is a disgrace and worse than anything done since Nazi Germany. I think he might have gone a bit far but I get Daemon's point.

 

[Starfighter]

As Daemon said, this act by Pakistan is a disgrace and worse than anything done since Nazi Germany. I think he might have gone a bit far but I get Daemon's point.

#Gnskethoughts

 

[Victor Ian]

You are hosting a team. What kind of host will you be?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Brings me to another thought, if the "host" team (Pakistan) has control over such aspects of the touring team's stay is it really a "neutral" venue?

 

[Dan]

This is the crux of the matter, you think that it's alright for teams to actually go out of their way to sabotage a hosts preparation, and a great proportion of use do not.

Two points on this.

• I wouldn't consider not picking a spinner to be "sabotage".
• If not picking a spinner is all it takes to entirely screw your preparation, you have far bigger problems to deal with.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wouldn't consider not picking a spinner to be "sabotage".

That's an interesting viewpoint to say the least, but I guess you're entitled to it

If not picking a spinner is all it takes to entirely screw your preparation, you have far bigger problems to deal with.

You've gone along this irrelevant path several times already in this thread and the reason no one's responded to it is because it is irrelevant. No one's even saying that it is going to "entirely screw" anyone's preparation. The issue would be pretty much the same even if you didn't think it would affect the preparation at all, though it is exacerbated by it being Australia touring likely spin-friendly conditions.

 

[Starfighter]

Two points on this.

• I wouldn't consider not picking a spinner to be "sabotage".

You have a interesting definition tstl.

If not picking a spinner is all it takes to entirely screw your preparation, you have far bigger problems to deal with.

What TJB said. Framing things in your own terms doesn't make you right in the original terms, no matter how much you repeat yourself. Classic straw-manning.

 

[Prince EWS]

I agree that it sucks but I don't think there's anything you can actually do about it. Tour team selection/balance is far too subjective a thing for me to be comfortable with the ICC ruling over, so I basically think we just have to suck lemons and accept that sometimes things are less than ideal.

Perhaps boards could make bilateral agreements surrounding the quality of opposition they'd provide in tour games, but I don't think it's something you could make clear objective rules for the ICC to enforce about.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I agree that it sucks but I don't think there's anything you can actually do about it. Tour team selection/balance is far too subjective a thing for me to be comfortable with the ICC ruling over, so I basically think we just have to suck lemons and accept that sometimes things are less than ideal.

Perhaps boards could make bilateral agreements surrounding the quality of opposition they'd provide in tour games, but I don't think it's something you could make clear objective rules for the ICC to enforce about.

Honestly I wouldn't have thought that the ICC should have to rule over it, and that basic human decency and common sense would prevail. That's why I was so shocked that I made this thread, I never really considered that anyone would actually go ahead and do what Pakistan did here. The consideration never really crossed my mind.

 

[srbhkshk]

IMO just refuse to play the tour game if you feel it wouldn't be helpful and move on, it's not something that you can put any rulings on anyway.

 

[TheJediBrah]

IMO just refuse to play the tour game if you feel it wouldn't be helpful and move on, it's not something that you can put any rulings on anyway.

I mentioned that earlier:

What happens when a team gets scheduled a tour match like this though and they just say at the last minute "nah **** it we aren't wasting our time" and just organise an intra-squad game against proper spin bowler? Would they even be allowed to? Hard to organise your own proper preparation if you're obligated to play practice games against doctored 'A' teams.

What are the logistics of refusing to play a tour game that the hosting team organised? It's probably part of the tour deal or something to play the game

 

[Prince EWS]

I think India cancelled one on their recent tour to England once they realised the opposition would be crap.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, looks like India cancelled their tour game in South Africa with no reason given:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uth-africa-cancelled/articleshow/62023324.cms

And then cut short their tour game in England for a variety of reasons (heat wave, poor quality pitch/outfield), even though 2000 people had already bought tickets to the cancelled day:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket...our-day-warm-up-match-against-essex-concerns/

 

[srbhkshk]

I mentioned that earlier:



What are the logistics of refusing to play a tour game that the hosting team organised? It's probably part of the tour deal or something to play the game

Yeah as PEWS mentioned, India cancelled the tour game in England, they also cancelled it in SA although not sure what were the exact circumstances there. Shouldn't be too hard telling the hosting board that we only play if you give us proper conditions - It's a reasonable request on a one to one level and I'd be interested in seeing if there was some board who would refuse / rescind on such requests.

 

[Dan]

I agree that it sucks but I don't think there's anything you can actually do about it. Tour team selection/balance is far too subjective a thing for me to be comfortable with the ICC ruling over, so I basically think we just have to suck lemons and accept that sometimes things are less than ideal.

Perhaps boards could make bilateral agreements surrounding the quality of opposition they'd provide in tour games, but I don't think it's something you could make clear objective rules for the ICC to enforce about.

And, I mean, if someone completely takes the piss like Sri Lanka rolling out a genuine greentop, they're probably getting binned off to Tony Ireland Stadium to play a bunch of 17yos the next time they tour.

 

[Prince EWS]

And, I mean, if someone completely takes the piss like Sri Lanka rolling out a genuine greentop, they're probably getting binned off to Tony Ireland Stadium to play a bunch of 17yos the next time they tour.

Right, but ultimately the point is that this sucks, particularly in an era where winning overseas seems to be getting increasingly difficult. I think we're heading down a path where tour games will be pointless and just not scheduled due to the quality of the opposition, rigged team balance, unrepresentative conditions etc, and that can't be good.

I don't think the governing body can or should do anything about it, and all the nationalist dickwaving and pearl clutching earlier in the thread was pretty dire too, but it's okay to think it's a bad path to be heading down.

 

[Borges]

I think that the solution is actually quite simple. I would expect that if a host board presents touring teams with decent warm up games (non-joke teams to play against in representative conditions), it would be reciprocated when they tour.

 

[Daemon]

Good to see everyone agreeing with me. Doesn't happen very often.

 

[andmark]

I think that the solution is actually quite simple. I would expect that if a host board presents touring teams with decent warm up games (non-joke teams to play against in representative conditions), it would be reciprocated when they tour.

Yeah, I've been thinking this. If a team purposely chooses to do daft things for oppositions' warm up matches, they deserve the same treatment. On the other hand, if a team makes an effort to give good warm up matches, they deserve such courtesy.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think that the solution is actually quite simple. I would expect that if a host board presents touring teams with decent warm up games (non-joke teams to play against in representative conditions), it would be reciprocated when they tour.

evidently not. When Pakistan toured Aus in 2016/17 they were even given a day/night tour match with the pink ball and everything to help them prepare for the upcoming day night Test.

Last time SL toured Aus (2012/13) the tour game was against an almost international-strength Aus Board side that actually outplayed the tourists if anything, in perfectly representative conditions. Then when Aus toured SL they got the greentop-to-prepare-for-dustbowls treatment.

Reciprocity is clearly not a happening.