andmark
International Captain
Reciprocity seems like a fair ideal to aim for though, whilst it might require discussions between boards to formalise it. That's not to say that it happens at the moment though as you show.
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What to do about tour matches
- Thread starter TheJediBrah
- Start date
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If boards treated tourists as guests instead of competition then the whole thing would work a lot better. It's just common decency. You don't invite people around to dinner and then make them eat brussel sprouts while you eat caviar and drink champagne. You hide the caviar and champagne until they go home and pretend you're on a new diet so you don't eat anything for dinner. Wait, where was I going with this?
I don't think a day night game reflects an attempt to provide representative conditions. Touring teams can't request ground or opposition lineup but they could certainly ask for something like this, and a host couldn't refuse without creating an incident.
AUS can't control pitch conditions enough to provide one that isn't representative. RSA have the same problem, but they have variety across the country, so their 'cheat' has been to stick tourists on pitches that are least like the ones the tests will have. Memory isn't 100%, but I think they were shameless enough to openly state that they were doing so instead of going the normal route of silently doing so. India too I think.
Reciprocity seems to exist. We just don't like the route it's gone.
AUS can't control pitch conditions enough to provide one that isn't representative. RSA have the same problem, but they have variety across the country, so their 'cheat' has been to stick tourists on pitches that are least like the ones the tests will have. Memory isn't 100%, but I think they were shameless enough to openly state that they were doing so instead of going the normal route of silently doing so. India too I think.
Reciprocity seems to exist. We just don't like the route it's gone.
TheJediBrah
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I don't think this is accurate at all. Not sure about India but I don't think Aus or SA have done anything even close to a deliberate attempt to provide bad warm-up games. India definitely haven't done anything like Pak have done here or SL have a recent history of doing. It's not reciprocity, it's a few bad eggs trying to get an advantage at the expense of sportsmanship.
Burgey
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Has it really been that long since SL toured here?
TheJediBrah
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I can't recall anything more recent. They might have come for some meaningless ODIs/T20Is against a second-string team since then
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This.
Since Johnson broke Sangakkara we haven't seen the Sri Lankan team for anything more than a coupler of t20s and the world cup.
Since Herath chickened out of this tour I can't see Sri Lanka pulling off anything more than a coupler of innings defeats or maybe a rain affected draw.
TheJediBrah
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Not exactly a difficult prediction given that historically even at full strength that's about the best SL could hope for
India had the one warmup game on RSAs last tour on a decent wicket with the tests all on burners (public instructions to doctor them). India didn't even play a warmup because RSA offered them such a dry pitch that they figured it was pointless. Maybe it wasn't on purpose, but I'm a bit skeptical. Public institutions to doctor test pitches with green, although groundskeepers didn't manage. It wasn't the only tour that made me raise eyebrows, but I'm a bit short on details.
I think AUS played two players against Pakistan who have never played another 1st class game, so they weren't exactly fielding the best.
Looks like reciprocity to me, just ugly reciprocity.
I think AUS played two players against Pakistan who have never played another 1st class game, so they weren't exactly fielding the best.
Looks like reciprocity to me, just ugly reciprocity.
TheJediBrah
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That was a team of youth and there were plenty of talented players. Pak were bowled out for 200 against them, and 200/6 dec. second innings so clearly it was tough enough competition.
And regardless it clearly wasn't a deliberate ploy, which is the point, if they wanted to deny a good warm up they wouldn't have gone to the effort of organising a day-night game which I'm assuming would be more difficult and expensive.
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Getting club cricketers to face a national side isn't a good mix, even if there was some quality. Pakistan crushed them on a tour where they weren't even remotely competitive against AUS.
Saying it wasn't a deliberate ploy because of the DN issue (which I addressed, but NVM, not so important), is the equivalent of saying Pakistan not fielding a spinner is not a deliberate ploy because they fielded an otherwise strong team- seperate issues. Just because you are not rigging the cards in every conceivable fashion does not mean you are not doing it at all.
It seems (very slightly) more plausible to me that Pak are using their team selection as a feeder into the national side by not picking any spinners rather than 'cheating' than that AUS were doing so by picking club players.
Saying it wasn't a deliberate ploy because of the DN issue (which I addressed, but NVM, not so important), is the equivalent of saying Pakistan not fielding a spinner is not a deliberate ploy because they fielded an otherwise strong team- seperate issues. Just because you are not rigging the cards in every conceivable fashion does not mean you are not doing it at all.
It seems (very slightly) more plausible to me that Pak are using their team selection as a feeder into the national side by not picking any spinners rather than 'cheating' than that AUS were doing so by picking club players.
Borges
International Regular
The Australian board is quite realistic about this. They recognise that if they act as good hosts in the future, it would be reciprocated when they visit other countries.
This is what Peter Roach (Head of Cricket Operations) had to say:
“I think all countries have probably been guilty in the past of not scheduling really good preparation... So there’s a push from the ICC to ensure member boards treat teams more like guests, with good warm-up games, suitable conditions and standard of opposition so that when do hit first Test match of a series, they’re as ready as they best can be.
...
Our position is that we want to play a real part in helping international teams prepare as best they can when they’re out here, in the time that they’ve got available. If we can be the front-runners that set an example for everyone else to follow, it has to be better for the game. And we hope and expect that to be reciprocated when we go overseas."
This is what Peter Roach (Head of Cricket Operations) had to say:
“I think all countries have probably been guilty in the past of not scheduling really good preparation... So there’s a push from the ICC to ensure member boards treat teams more like guests, with good warm-up games, suitable conditions and standard of opposition so that when do hit first Test match of a series, they’re as ready as they best can be.
...
Our position is that we want to play a real part in helping international teams prepare as best they can when they’re out here, in the time that they’ve got available. If we can be the front-runners that set an example for everyone else to follow, it has to be better for the game. And we hope and expect that to be reciprocated when we go overseas."
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The Pakistan not picking a spinner issue is ridiculous, but nowhere near as much as what Sri Lanka did. Fielding under strength sides is not even in the same ball park. Every country in history has always fielded under strength sides for tour matches, especially when there are scheduling conflicts.
To me this just shows how much some people hate Australians that they try to draw moral equivalences between these clearly against-the-spirit antics and what Australia has done (which is nothing).
India, the West Indies, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and England have all been pretty good until now. It's mostly just Sri Lanka and now Pakistan that are being silly.
To me this just shows how much some people hate Australians that they try to draw moral equivalences between these clearly against-the-spirit antics and what Australia has done (which is nothing).
India, the West Indies, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and England have all been pretty good until now. It's mostly just Sri Lanka and now Pakistan that are being silly.
TheJediBrah
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The difference between understrength sides for tour games (which everyone is guilty of) because of necessity and what was deliberately done here has been explained to you directly at least 3 or 4 times already in this thread (not that it should have needed explaining). At this point I'm just going to assume you're trying to be funny because you're not this thick.
Borges
International Regular
The only other fans on the internet with a similar persecution complex are the Indian fans.
In both cases, what I have to say to them is: if there are a lot of people who intensely dislike your team, look inwards with an open mind, and you may learn something.
TheJediBrah
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You realise we are not actually part of these teams right? You think that David Warner is on here posting about how people hate his team?
Given that you're probably the biggest perpetrator on here of exactly what Stephen is talking about, how about you just try to open your mind and judge people and situations based on merit instead of your prejudices, you might learn something.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No persecution complex here mate. I honestly don't care what you think.
All I'm really here for is to talk cricket, and it's clear that whataboutism is rife when it shouldn't be for such a straightforward thing as tour preparations. I would be equally critical of CA if they did the same thing to other sides.
You're an SA fan right? What if Pakistan did this to your team? In fact I believe Sri Lanka did something similar to SA recently.
In fact I'm beginning to think that the Sri Lankan board are the biggest trolls in world cricket. First giving us Ranatunga and now this. What next, underarm bowlers?
jimmy101
Cricketer Of The Year
Gotta remember guys that Pakistan are in it to win it. They're under no obligation to roll out the red carpet for touring teams. Yeah, I'm also pissed off about the fact tour matches are quickly being turned into a farce these days, but this is international cricket. Advantages are there to be gained.
Under that pretense, hosts can do whatever they want. Craters in the practice pitches. Hookers strangling cats outside hotel rooms. Changing rooms that smell like piss. Fielding the local pub XI for warm-up games. Pissed up crowds throwing used needles and empty cans.
I know I just described a typical tour to Australia, but honestly everywhere else it's unacceptable. Teams are under obligation to provide decent facilities. Because they'd sure as **** sook it up if it was suffered by them on the road. Red carpet no, a level of hosting that befits the experience of a professional sport, yes.
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