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What to do about tour matches

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Last time I checked a bowling machine wasn't a good substitute for an actual human being who can produce a much greater (and often unintentional, making prediction hard) range of deliveries, lines and so on and can actually think and plan about batsmen. Cricket isn't played in a vacuum and all preparation is not equal.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Last time I checked a bowling machine wasn't a good substitute for an actual human being who can produce a much greater (and often unintentional, making prediction hard) range of deliveries, lines and so on and can actually think and plan about batsmen. Cricket isn't played in a vacuum and all preparation is not equal.
It's not easy to bat against a good bowling machine ftr.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Last time I checked a bowling machine wasn't a good substitute for an actual human being who can produce a much greater (and often unintentional, making prediction hard) range of deliveries, lines and so on and can actually think and plan about batsmen. Cricket isn't played in a vacuum and all preparation is not equal.
Ok then, hypothetical. Let's assume Afghanistan pick Rashid Khan in a warm-up Chairman's XI because he's short on overs. They instruct him only to bowl his leg break, so that the opposition's best specialist batsman doesn't get the chance to see the googly ahead of time.

Legitimate tactic, or disgusting cheating?

Let's also say they also tell him not to worry about implementing plans -- just groove the stock ball and get everything working, and try to pick things up to develop further plans throughout the game. Does that change things?
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
And yeah, someone's clearly never had a good bowling machine operator working them over. Can be seriously hard work that properly stretches your technique and batting plans.
 

OverratedSanity

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Yeah bowling machines can be superb preparation when done right. It's obviously not a full substitute for a proper warm up match but it's great for working out new methods to combat spin, especially if you aren't good at picking it ftom the hand.
 

Bolo

State Captain
Teams use their A side to test bench strength. This is their main function, not to pander to visitor desires. Are the guys bowling here considered potential national prospects, and have they left out any spinners who are?
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If the extent of your preparation starts a week out from the first Test, and is relying on the opposing board's altruism, then you damn well are to blame. There's all sorts of ways to do it -- intra-squad matches in the country, hiring external bowlers to replicate key opposition players, organising A tours, developing different decks in your own country to give domestic players experience in conditions that aren't the typical 'home' conditions of your country, hiring specialist coaches, getting guys to play overseas domestix (and that's not to mention the more admin-y things like selection, competition structures etc.) Like, think back to when Australia seemed significantly less phased by overseas conditions -- in broad terms the 'Gabba swung and seamed, Sydney turned, Adelaide was flat, Perth bounced. Melbourne was...rainy (or something). Wasn't perfect, sure, but the most experienced Test bat was far less likely to be a complete spud against spin, and the entire line-up was far less likely to completely crap itself whenever a ball moved off the straight.
None of the things you pose are necessarily better than practice against a decent XI in more or less the correct conditions, they all have problems with resourcing and that's ignoring the fact that, for example, replicated 'away' pitches will behave differently in a different climate, coaching can only do so much, and getting players to play overseas doesn't always yield the desired results, like Pujara this year, and rather concedes the point that practice in the correct conditions against the correct sort of opposition is vital. This also ignores the way the modern game is played, with players playing less FC cricket due to T20 (and central contracting even) and also changes in techniques. One can only play so much cricket, and since only money puts bread on the table most players will forgo the more nuanced things you bring up in favour of leagues, thus making tour matches even more important, and turning out a decent opposition isn't really altruism, it was the standard for 140 years. If you look back to the time when Australia was less fazed by overseas conditions you'll also see top flight players playing more FC cricket, and more tour matches against full strength or nearly full strength sides. If we look back really far, back to when JBMAC was a little tyke or earlier, we can see that Australia could come over from flat, faster wickets to soft damp English ones and actually play themselves in and acclimatise against strong opposition to very alien conditions without having any of the resources you describe, and compete in and sometimes even win test series. We could ask about boards who don't have the resources like WI or NZ, are they supposed to go to the dogs? When experienced ex-players like Rahul Dravid opine that there may be a problem, there may be a problem.

Ok then, hypothetical. Let's assume Afghanistan pick Rashid Khan in a warm-up Chairman's XI because he's short on overs. They instruct him only to bowl his leg break, so that the opposition's best specialist batsman doesn't get the chance to see the googly ahead of time. Legitimate tactic, or disgusting cheating? Let's also say they also tell him not to worry about implementing plans -- just groove the stock ball and get everything working, and try to pick things up to develop further plans throughout the game. Does that change things?
Firstly you've deliberately posed your hypothetical scenario so you know it's one you can win, it's unlikely a board would not only play a layer in a non-regular match against the touring team and tell them to not bowl properly rather than having them play a domestic match around the same time, and so on. But even then facing said player would give the opposition some clues about them which is obviously better than none, for instance getting them used to his regular release which could make the variation more obvious, or noting his stock line and length and making plans to disrupt that which can disrupt their ability to deliver their variation effectively. And there are very few true mystery players like Rashid, so it doesn't apply to most scenarios. It's too narrow a framing.
 

Daemon

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The issue is that Pakistan intentionally decided not to play a spinner in the XI to deny Australia preparation against spin. I really don't think that part is debatable.

What's more interesting is whether this is a problem or not. I believe Dan and a few others don't think so.

I'm personally with Starfighter - why have tour games at all if they're not for the principle purpose of helping the away team to acclimatise? If we're going be ok with not giving the opposition a spinner to play against, when they're obviously going to play a buttload of it in the tests, on the basis that the away team should have come prepared/look for alternative ways to acclimatise, what's next? Are we then ok with crap teams, alien conditions and what SL did? Maybe even go one big step further and give them poor facilities to train in. Book nets for them that have pitches that are the complete opposite of what they'll face in a match.

I'll admit I can't think of a good solution but I'd hate for cricket as a whole to do down this path.
 

andmark

International Captain
Am I being naive for thinking there is benefit to gain for the hosting team to play a full strength A side? Like, if these a potential test cricketers, surely giving them the chance to face a team of test cricketers can provide good experience for them. For the touring side, if the hosts are doing an effective job of recruiting for the A side, they should, in theory, get relatively good opposition. This all depends on the hosts thinking about how they could gain in the longer term than the current series which could be a brave thing to do.
 

SteveNZ

International Coach
If all teams move forward with the knowledge the hosting country are going to do them no favours in terms of preparation, and are able to make their own provisions and warm-up plans to get ready for overseas series', then they'll all be better for it. The host country is under no obligation. You'd like to see them not go out of their way to prepare pitches that are completely opposed to what will be encountered in the series' proper, and are somewhat near fit for purpose, but can't expect them to field an XI to fit your needs etc.

If you're going to a country where it's going to spin, you'd expect to have spinners in your squad that can give you the sort of preparation you need. If you don't, then you're probably not going to do well anyway.
 

Adders

International Coach
Yeah I think this practise that's being discussed here is as much a symptom as a cause of the current trend of touring sides performing badly. While all teams bar SA have pretty shocking away records it makes it vitally important that they don't lose home fixtures, that's how the likes of India, Australia and even England are keeping themselves in the top 4. Any of these teams start dropping home test series then they are sliding right down the rankings. Hardly surprising then that home boards are doing all they can to maximise their home advantage and offering no quarter at all to the tourists.
 

SteveNZ

International Coach
Yeah I think this practise that's being discussed here is as much a symptom as a cause of the current trend of touring sides performing badly. While all teams bar SA have pretty shocking away records it makes it vitally important that they don't lose home fixtures, that's how the likes of India, Australia and even England are keeping themselves in the top 4. Any of these teams start dropping home test series then they are sliding right down the rankings. Hardly surprising then that home boards are doing all they can to maximise their home advantage and offering no quarter at all to the tourists.
It'd be better if teams took responsibility for their away form, rather than trying to blame a whole host of other factors outside their control (I'm mainly talking about the coach here). We get the 'they're not giving us ideal warm-up scenarios' and 'they're doctoring their pitches' and we even got 'coin tosses are unfair and should be abolished' from one side a couple of years ago on the sub-continent.

Better to know that you're going to get bunsen burners in India, NZ might try and green up pitches when we can, Australia might make theirs flat and dead as hell in an effort to ensure only their quicks can get any joy etc...and just deal with it. The truly great sides ala Australia '01 just blew off excuses, moulded an all-round team and got the job done.

Of course home boards maximise their home advantage. They have an obligation to home fans to provide entertainment through success. They don't have a particular obligation to the world game or anything outside their own back yard, unless the ICC make them (ie neutral groundsmen etc which will never happen).
 

Adders

International Coach
100% agree with the sentiment. When England won in India in 2012 they didn't get a decent preparation and lost every toss, bar the first test which they lost anyway.

Very good teams will get on with the job and play to their potential no matter if outside factors are against them. Just don't think we have any really good teams atm, but it is very disappointing that poor teams would rather whinge about these factors rather than focusing on why they themselves are shite.
 

Daemon

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3 tour games not enough Adders?

I don't see why teams can't whinge about these sort of things if it's a waste of their time. It's not like they're saying it's the only reason they're unprepared.
 

TheJediBrah

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The issue is that Pakistan intentionally decided not to play a spinner in the XI to deny Australia preparation against spin. I really don't think that part is debatable.

What's more interesting is whether this is a problem or not. I believe Dan and a few others don't think so.

I'm personally with Starfighter - why have tour games at all if they're not for the principle purpose of helping the away team to acclimatise? If we're going be ok with not giving the opposition a spinner to play against, when they're obviously going to play a buttload of it in the tests, on the basis that the away team should have come prepared/look for alternative ways to acclimatise, what's next? Are we then ok with crap teams, alien conditions and what SL did? Maybe even go one big step further and give them poor facilities to train in. Book nets for them that have pitches that are the complete opposite of what they'll face in a match.

I'll admit I can't think of a good solution but I'd hate for cricket as a whole to do down this path.
What happens when a team gets scheduled a tour match like this though and they just say at the last minute "nah **** it we aren't wasting our time" and just organise an intra-squad game against proper spin bowler? Would they even be allowed to? Hard to organise your own proper preparation if you're obligated to play practice games against doctored 'A' teams.
 

TheJediBrah

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Wait so Pakistan haven't actually rolled out non-representative conditions after all, they've just played an under-strength side in the context of the ongoing Quaid-e-Azam competition?
Oh, so now it isn't about the conditions or the strength, the argument is against the team balance. Right.
Seriously, this genuinely amounts to "overseas boards are mean to us". Harden the **** up. Australia isn't losing because of some giant PCB-SLCB conspiracy to deny them proper preparation.

The PCB can't win here. If the deck isn't a dustbowl, they've trotted out unrepresentative conditions and they're evil. If they don't pick a leggie, they haven't provided representative opposition and they're evil. If they do pick a leggie and he's a third string 18yo, still not representative because Yasir is actually good, and they're evil. If they turn out a genuine A XI with fringe Test guys and they destroy Australia, the warm-up was too hard and Australia couldn't prepare properly and they're evil.
Uh what?. Do you even understand what the thread is about or what the issue with the game was? Because even though it was very clear you still clearly don't. And why are you posting about it?

Do I really need to repeat it again? ok fine.

Home board deliberately picked a side with no specialist spin bowlers, knowing that the Tests will be spin-heavy. None of your garbage scenarios you've listed to try and make the issue seem trivial are remotely the same. Other than the "trotted out unrepresentative conditions". If they legitimately did that, deliberately, then that would be just as bad as what they did here with team selection.
 

Borges

International Regular
The only viable solution is an understanding between the cricket boards about the quality of the teams presented for warm up games. With reciprocity being the key.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
There's a variety of reasons why teams are not properly preparing for tours, and the solutions to failure are becoming harder and harder to implement due to the economics of cricket, and the sheer weight of international, domestic and franchise cricket that is being played throughout the year. Can't understand why anyone would encourage cricket boards to make it any harder for touring teams and further widen the gap between teams on tour and at home.
 

TheJediBrah

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The only viable solution is an understanding between the cricket boards about the quality of the teams presented for warm up games. With reciprocity being the key.
I'm more leaning toward what a few suggested earlier regarding touring teams being in more in charge of their own warm-up. But they'd have to communicate with the hosting board so they aren't stuck playing useless tour games (assuming they are useless). One of the major issues has been strength of tour match opposition being sub-par, which is a tough one to solve, and no one is doing it deliberately (afaik).
 

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