What does Kohli need to surpass Tendulkar?

[sunilz]

Sorry mate, but are you a bit slow?

Can you seriously not understand the difference between acknowledging that India have a better ODI history than New Zealand (which I did above) , and the quite separate exercise of comparing the best all-time XI line-ups from each side. When you do the latter, it's almost impossible not to acknowledge that India have the better batsmen in their all time XI and NZ has the better bowlers. Unless you're suggesting that India have ever had ODI bowlers as good as Hadlee, Bond (for certain), and arguably Chatfield and Vettori. That isn't the same thing as claiming NZ have a better ODI history, nor denying India have had better depth and more excellent players.

So u can assume that NZ AT XI is as good as India despite the fact that historically they have always choked in multilateral tournaments. But Tendulkar fans can't assume that he will win them every game . Once again look in the mirror.
You have single handedly ruined this thread by ur constant digs on Sachin. No body said here he is the greatest cricketer ever. But he did face the highest pressure as compared to other sportsman.

 

[Zinzan]

1. It has nothing to do with the topic. At best what is relevant is whether pressure of crazy fans counts when evaluating a player.
2. You are not particularly qualified to diss "delusional" and "ignorant" fans given your posting history. Typically those who are qualified don't have the need to get off by dissing "others"

You (and others) dissed the fans by saying they expected Sachin to win games every time he bats. All I did was respond with how stupid & ignorant any fans would be to think that way if they understood the nature of cricket, and suggested they can't be educated cricket fans. You don't think that,do you? So why you are taking offence to criticism of it.

Kindly elaborate on points/posts of mine you disagree with instead of making blanket statements. I think what you actually mean is I don't seem to rate Tendulkar as highly as you'd like.

If you're trying to suggest I have a strong New Zealand bias, then you might want to note I consistently rate KW behind the other 3 of the Fab 4 and the only NZ cricketers I do genuinely rate right up there (and could possibly have some subconscious bias towards) are Hadlee & Crowe (overall) & Bond and Vettori in white ball cricket.

 

[Zinzan]

So u can assume that NZ AT XI is as good as India despite the fact that historically they have always choked in multilateral tournaments. .

You can't grasp the distinction no matter how many times I've tried to explain it, so we'll have to leave it there I'm afraid.

 

[stephen]

Who are bigger fan fanatic , Tendulkar or Bradman ?

Question for u : How many bowlers did Bradman face who had ICC TEST bowling peak rating of more than 850 forget 900. ?

How many bowlers did tendulkar face with a rating below 400?

The thing is it doesn't really matter. You really have to be clutching at straws to argue anything but Bradman the best ever by a long way.

As good as tendulkar was the most remarkable thing about him was how long he maintained his excellence.

 

[sunilz]

How many bowlers did tendulkar face with a rating below 400?

The thing is it doesn't really matter. You really have to be clutching at straws to argue anything but Bradman the best ever by a long way.

As good as tendulkar was the most remarkable thing about him was how long he maintained his excellence.

Never said Tendulkar was better than Bradman. However Bradman fans can assume that he will average 100 against any bowling attack and in any country but Tendulkar fans can't assume that he could win them every game.

 

[Slifer]

You don't know your facts, do you?

Cricket Records | Records | 1990s | Test matches | Highest averages | ESPNcricinfo
Cricket Records | Records | 1990s | Test matches | Most hundreds | ESPNcricinfo

And anyway, let's say Indian fans suck and Indian media sucks, why do you want to keep repeating that when it has no relevance to the topic. May I suggest you to grow up, apart from buying a mirror?

Tbh, those stats are a bit misleading. When it came to the very best attacks: WI, RSA, PAK Steve Waugh was decidedly better than Sachin imo. I didn't include Australia because obviously Steve Waugh couldn't play again his own attack. Lara and Sachin struggled similarly against the great attacks that they faced: PAK, Oz (with McWarne) and RSA. I give Tendulkar the edge over Lara because at least he scored hundreds against all these attacks.

 

[Shri]

**** england. Kohli doesn't need to do **** there to me. He has been imperious against pace in SA and Aus. Don't care if he fails against dibbly dobblers who need clouds for wickets.

 

[Shri]

Same applies to Ponting. Who cares if he was Harby's bunny in India? Was good enough everywhere else.

 

[TheJediBrah]

And? Who was arguing otherwise? New Zealand has 4.5 million people and Rugby (not cricket) is our national game, and we're the greatest rugby team of all-time by a margin. There's no logical reason at all to think we should even get close to competing with the likes of India & Australia (in which cricket is the national game), England, Pakistan & South Africa, so it's mighty satisfying when we do win against all odds once in a while.

I wouldn't say cricket is any more popular in Australia than New Zealand. It's certainly not the "national game". AFL and even soccer now (fmd) are easily more popular. Different forms of rugby are of a similar level as well.

btw I think there's a bit of a language barrier getting in the way of you guys these last few pages. You keep arguing different irrelevant things. It's kind of frustrating to read.

 

[marc71178]

Never said Tendulkar was better than Bradman. However Bradman fans can assume that he will average 100 against any bowling attack and in any country but Tendulkar fans can't assume that he could win them every game.

It's a team game. No one player wins any game, let alone every game. Those 2 statements are completely different in their nature.

 

[Daemon]

sunilz and zinzan posting crap at each other is like watching vinay kumar bowl at guptill in a Test match.

 

[Gob]

sunilz>>>>Gnske

 

[cnerd123]

If you don't think having literally 100s of channels in dozens of languages talk **** about you on a 24/7 cycle, having hundreds of newspapers writing articles dissecting every aspect of your performance, and having people literally kill themselves across the country when your team loses a match doesn't affect your performance to a significant level, you're either a souless machine or just talking **** about circumstances you would never understand over a cricket forum.

The pressure of being an elite athlete is crazy enough. Let alone in the most watched sport of a nation. Take that to the only watched sport, and a nation of a billion+ people who tie their own self worth and position in the world as a nation into your team's success.

It's one of those things I suppose you just don't understand if you've not been in the subcontinent.

 

[Jumno]

Kohli is a long, long way behind surpassing Tendulkar in tests. Tendulkar has faced far more superior bowlers (Wasim, Waqur, Donald, Pollock, Steyn, McGrath, Warne, Murali, Ambrose, Walsh) in far tougher conditions. Overall Tendulkar's longevity and balanced career will go for him.

Also he's record is very good all around the world. Tendulkar was adjudged man on the test series in Australia 1999/00 where there were controversial decisions made against Tendulkar such as 'shoulder before wicket'.

I doubt Kohli will surpass Tendulkar in tests.

In odi's, he is getting there and needs to dominate at least one world cup.

 

[stephen]

That shoulder before wicket was plumb. There were a couple of dodgy decisions against Tendulkar but that wasn't one of them.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Name me 5 great cricket experts or players who rate steve waugh above Sachin. Show me AT XI of atleast 5 cricket experts who include steve waugh in their ATXI.
I won't even talk about ODI

Well, most people rates Lara on par with Sachin. Waugh was selected among top 25 Espn cricketers of alltime (which i dont agree) over Tendulkar equivalent Lara.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Never said Tendulkar was better than Bradman. However Bradman fans can assume that he will average 100 against any bowling attack and in any country but Tendulkar fans can't assume that he could win them every game.

Dont you think its more logical to expect Sachin will average 50 against any bowling attack in any country than winning matches single handedly?

If Sachin fans can expect him winning every game,
Bradman fans can expect, Bradman winning every game twice.
(In this case Sachin fans are more logical though.)

 

[_00_deathscar]

If you don't think having literally 100s of channels in dozens of languages talk **** about you on a 24/7 cycle, having hundreds of newspapers writing articles dissecting every aspect of your performance, and having people literally kill themselves across the country when your team loses a match doesn't affect your performance to a significant level, you're either a souless machine or just talking **** about circumstances you would never understand over a cricket forum.

The pressure of being an elite athlete is crazy enough. Let alone in the most watched sport of a nation. Take that to the only watched sport, and a nation of a billion+ people who tie their own self worth and position in the world as a nation into your team's success.

It's one of those things I suppose you just don't understand if you've not been in the subcontinent.

Head. Nail.

It's a crazy argument to suggest that the pressures on Tendulkar - not just as an athlete but as a PERSON - are equal to the pressures of an average or even top-level athlete.

In fact, the very REASON the pressures on Kohli aren't as high (from a national standpoint) are BECAUSE Sachin preceded him. Without Sachin, there would be no Kohli.

Bear in mind:
- The population of India, how they elevate their sportsheroes (rightly or wrongly) and how widely cricket is followed there, tying in with Sachin coming in at a time when the accessibility to TVs was increasing
- He was India's only real hope for much of the 90s in cricket, for a growing nation with an increasingly younger audience looking for an inspirational figure
- Then the match fixing fiasco happened
- Then the Mumbai bombings

Rightly or wrongly, the nation put their entire hopes in Sachin. He came into test cricket when he was 16 years of age and by the time he was 20 was already the nation's best player.

The closest parallels I can think of in modern times would be someone like the Brazilian Ronaldo - except I don't think he had to deal with quite as much from a pressure standpoint as Brazil had a world class team (although injuries were another issue), or Steven Gerrard for Liverpool (trying to win the league for Liverpool) - but again, Liverpool does not have the backing of 1 billion people.

 

[Burgey]

These statements about pressure on Tendulkar are as fatuous as saying "Australia punches above its weight at the winter Olympics." They're meaningless. Great sportspeople (don't include Gerard in that, he was a spud) deal well with external and internal pressures - it's one of the things which sets them aside from others. They might have different ways of dealing with it, but they all do, or they wouldn't excel.

Do you really think Tendulkar walked out to bat thinking "****, there's a billion people hoping I do well?" Spare me this crap. The only way that adds to pressure for him is if he is the sort of bloke who cared what others think of him, and he wouldn't have been as great as he is if that was the case. Part of being a great sportsperson is being able to compartmentalise, thrive under all sorts of pressure and concentrate on the job at hand.

Whether an entire nation puts its hopes into one person means nothing, especially to a bloke as selfish as Tendulkar, who wouldn't move from number four if his mother's life depended on it, let alone do what was best for the team.

The bloke played for 20 odd years and barely gave anything of himself to the public. The idea that he was sweating on the thoughts and prayers of a billion people when he walked out to bat is laughable.

 

[cnerd123]

I think you're missing the point Burgey. The point that Sachin was so adapt at not letting the pressure get to him is what's remarkable about him. Less pressure that that has broken several cricketers. The fact that Sachin was not just ridiculously talented, but also somehow immune to all this pressure on him to the point where you felt he just lived in his own bubble, and yet somehow managed to maintain the hunger to play on for a career twice as long as anyone he played alongside with, all while staying completely clear from scandal and corruption...that's the magic of Tendulkar there.

It's why he's beyond compare in these discussions. There are just so few other humans you could put in Sachins position who would have handled it as well as he did, let alone top quality international batsman.