Vaughan to score an ODI ton before his 100th ODI?

[Richard]

and yet you call for the selection of saqlain mushtaq.......

Saqlain Mushtaq who's a proven success on all surfaces in a massive number of ODIs?
Yes.

 

[tooextracool]

Because one's retired (long ago, in fact) and the other is quite clearly not the bowler he used to be.
Ealham, however, very clearly is - as anyone who saw him bowl last season would attest.

except that he wasnt a very good bowler in the first place. he was decent, and we dont need decent 35 year olds who cant bat or field in the side.

 

[Richard]

and thats despite the fact that he doenst look like the sort of player who is capable of playing the big shots earlier on in the innings and takes a while to get set.....

In which case he shouldn't be playing.
When's he ever batted as an opener or three except against Zimbabwe and for the u19s?

even though ive in the past showed that they've been several better - caddick,gough, mullally and fraser.

One of whom has retired from ODIs, one of whom is still playing though not bowling as well as he used to, one of whom isn't even bowling like he used to at the domestic level, and one who retired from all professional cricket 2 years ago.

 

[tooextracool]

Saqlain Mushtaq who's a proven success on all surfaces in a massive number of ODIs?
Yes.

just one minor note- hes a finger spinner.

 

[Richard]

A fingerspinner who bowls a Doosra - there is a difference.

 

[Richard]

except that he wasnt a very good bowler in the first place. he was decent, and we dont need decent 35 year olds who cant bat or field in the side.

Can't field? Clearly haven't seen him recently.
Can't bat? Not especially well, no, but can certainly bat better than the like of Wharf, Gough, Anderson, Harmison, Kabir Ali... need to go on?

 

[tooextracool]

In which case he shouldn't be playing.
When's he ever batted as an opener or three except against Zimbabwe and for the u19s?

why should he not be playing? he looks like the sort of player who might succeed at no 3.

 

[Richard]

In which case don't you think it's just mildly possible that he'd have been tried there before?
Weren't you saying not very long ago that he'd never be a ODI success anywhere because he's too orthodox?

 

[Richard]

Christ, first Richard & now TEC! What have I done to deserve this?!

Made a massive underestimation of a magnificent player.

 

[tooextracool]

A fingerspinner who bowls a Doosra - there is a difference.

so only fingerspinners with doosras can succeed then?

 

[Richard]

How many fingerspinners have been successes in ODIs recently (Giles hasn't been terrible, but nor has he been fantastic) then?
Except Saqlain and Harbhajan, of course.

 

[tooextracool]

In which case don't you think it's just mildly possible that he'd have been tried there before?
Weren't you saying not very long ago that he'd never be a ODI success anywhere because he's too orthodox?

except that i never used the word 'never', i said something along the lines off he doesnt look like the sort of player who would succeed in ODIs. and he hasnt done that yet anyways, even though i now think that he might be capable if he batted in the right position, which is clearly up the order, not down.

 

[Richard]

No-one would possibly say he should be batting six or seven.
I'd argue that his best position would be four - but that's not possible if you're going to insist on selecting Solanki or Vaughan.
Something they insist on doing despite the fact Bell is clearly a better OD player than both.

 

[tooextracool]

Can't field? Clearly haven't seen him recently.
Can't bat? Not especially well, no, but can certainly bat better than the like of Wharf, Gough, Anderson, Harmison, Kabir Ali... need to go on?

ealham was never anything brilliant in the field, and while i havent watched him i doubt hes managed to put on more pace since the last time i did(probably lost a lot too). and yes i think wharf is a better batsman than ealham. gough is a no 11, i dont think ealham's bowling is good enough for him to make the side solely as a no 10 or 11.

 

[tooextracool]

How many fingerspinners have been successes in ODIs recently (Giles hasn't been terrible, but nor has he been fantastic) then?
Except Saqlain and Harbhajan, of course.

vettori, jayasuriya .......

 

[tooextracool]

No-one would possibly say he should be batting six or seven.
I'd argue that his best position would be four - but that's not possible if you're going to insist on selecting Solanki or Vaughan.
Something they insist on doing despite the fact Bell is clearly a better OD player than both.

there isnt really a significant difference between batting at 3 and 4. if he can bat at 4, he should in all likelyhood be able to bat at 3.

 

[Richard]

ealham was never anything brilliant in the field, and while i havent watched him i doubt hes managed to put on more pace since the last time i did(probably lost a lot too). and yes i think wharf is a better batsman than ealham. gough is a no 11, i dont think ealham's bowling is good enough for him to make the side solely as a no 10 or 11.

I do, personally - but no matter.
Wharf, with a First-Class average of less than 20, is better than Ealham, with a First-Class average of 33? Not to mention Ealham's domestic-OD average of nearly 26, and Wharf's of 15. (I'd go into their ODI records, too, but that's not really pointful given Wharf's played 4 innings)
Sorry, that's ridiculous.
Wharf can clearly bat a little bit - Ealham by domestic terms is an all-rounder, by ODI terms he's a bowler (good one at that) who can bat a bit.
I think Ealham is a very useful man to have coming-in at nine, personally.

 

[Richard]

vettori, jayasuriya .......

Jayasuriya? With his ER of 4.76 and his average of 36?
As death-bowlers go, he's certainly not the worst (due to the fact that he's quicker through the air than most) but nor can he be called an ODI success with his bowling.
Vettori? With that fantastic ER of 4.31 and that brilliant average of 34.02?
You could, just, make a case for the latter, but even then I don't see how one good orthodox-fingerspinner can justify the inclusion of another when almost all other fingerspinners have been dismal failures in ODIs.

 

[BoyBrumby]

In which case he shouldn't be playing.
When's he ever batted as an opener or three except against Zimbabwe and for the u19s?

He first came to my attention playing at 3! He was MOTM in the 2002 B & H Cup Final.

I would guess he's played at 3 at least a dozen times for Warwicks in List As.

Made a massive underestimation of a magnificent player.

How have I done that exactly? By saying he's the player in ODIs who is most likely to see a team thru to victory/a good total?!?

Well I humbly apologise to Mr Bevan & his family for my vicious, nay, libellous words!

 

[Richard]

there isnt really a significant difference between batting at 3 and 4. if he can bat at 4, he should in all likelyhood be able to bat at 3.

So why's he never done it, then?
It ain't like Dominic Ostler's been a fixture in Warwicks' side (indeed he's barely played recently).