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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Don't think Boult's best years are behind him tbh, think he's been consistently doing the same sorta job that he's done ever since that breakthru 10fer v WI. Has his good series and his bad ones, but that average of his by and large refuses to budge from 27ish. And yeah it's a big blow. With Wagner more or less spent, NZ are now missing 2/3rds of their best ever bowling attack. Big pressure on KJ to a) stay fit and b) step up to the plate on tour.
 

thundaboult

International 12th Man
Tickner is such a spud, but agree with this sentiment. Boults best years are probably behind him so I don't think this is really as big a blow as it would've been 4 years ago
Yeah i don't see him being able to lace trents boots...jamieson perhaps....i really had high hopes for matt henry but not sure where he's headed....southee largely remains a class test bowler. I trust ajaz to do an admirable job in wagner's place but even wagner's skillset is so goddamn special. And equally unique is trents skillset...quick nzc lets get workin on a durable left arm swing bowler capable of touching 140....its a tough ask
 

ashley bach

International 12th Man
Not sure why anyone's either surprised or disappointed with Trent's position.
Sure we'll all miss him, but why should he do what the public want him to do.
After 12 years of great service, why wouldn't you get your IPL and other 20/20 contracts in order before anything else?
With 3 kids and the end of your career looming, which could break down with a sudden injury, I'd almost go as far to say he'd be stupid if he didn't
go for the security.There's way more to life than cricket, wish him all the best and hope he rakes in as much as he can before moving on to his next life.
Anyone who thinks he's being greedy or something isn't thinking clearly.
 

thundaboult

International 12th Man
Not sure why anyone's either surprised or disappointed with Trent's position.
Sure we'll all miss him, but why should he do what the public want him to do.
After 12 years of great service, why wouldn't you get your IPL and other 20/20 contracts in order before anything else?
With 3 kids and the end of your career looming, which could break down with a sudden injury, I'd almost go as far to say he'd be stupid if he didn't
go for the security.There's way more to life than cricket, wish him all the best and hope he rakes in as much as he can before moving on to his next life.
Anyone who thinks he's being greedy or something isn't thinking clearly.
Our best world cup bowler of all time is Trent freakin Boult. He's given us a lot of moments to savour over the years. He can do as he pleases with his career. Plus, opens up a spot for someone in the test team. Ball keeps rollin.
 

RossTaylorsBox

International Coach
tl;dr - being paid more money than a doctor (including your talent being developed at no cost to you by NZC) to play cricket for NZ is an amazing job, it's barely a 'real' job compared to the absolute drudgery of most jobs and I will think less of any future players who choose to maximise their bank balance over entertaining their community.

So I'm going to be an outlier on this and I'll preface by saying a 33 year old who has broken his back before is a smart and good guy for looking to secure as much as he can before moving onto his next career. Also being away from family sucks, no matter the money, so that's excluded from what I say below. This isn't aimed at Boult but the looming trend.

IMO if New Zealand international representation becomes secondary to franchise trash, it is a poor reflection on the players. It reflects on you as a person if you choose to represent a cynical, pretend entity that does not matter for all the money rather than your community (who created you as a player) for a lot of money and hoped you would represent them.

I reckon the majority of people who are NZ cricket fans earn between 60-100k NZD a year, a lot of us have much earned less than that in the old days before moving up, some will earn more than 100k now and a lucky few might have started on the higher end.

Sportsmen in general don't understand how fortunate they are to earn six figures basically from the get-go. Kodi Nikorima, a trash tier former Warriors player whose main talent was rushing out of the line and missing tackles, earned more than our Prime Minister for this.

Most jobs are boring, that's why they're jobs. Many people will spend decades doing something that is often perfectly fine at best for a reasonable amount of money and many more will spend decades doing something ****ing lame for less. Professional sportsman is one of the best jobs in the world, if not the best. You get to play a game for a living, you have tons of fans and you earn more money than absolute elite skilled people in the community with extremely important jobs to society. Even better, unlike the people we know we actually need in society NZC paid to train you since you were a teenager. You didn't pay a cent.

So I diverge from the "can't blame the players" narrative. I understand it, but let's call it what it is. Greed. You can't legitimately sit on 200-500k per annum for playing an elaborate game of catch and claim you've been hard done by because professional game players in another country earn more. If New Zealand players start doing this in a New Zealand context, they are entitled man children with no understanding of how the average person lives, and this is understandable because they've never been in that position.

I absolutely would swindle some loser out of millions to bowl half volleys if I could (the KJ move), because my greedy eyes would light up. I freely admit this, but if I was getting paid six figures to be a golden god for NZ then I would not even pretend the NZC money pushed me away. It's the best job in the world ffs. You absolutely can blame the players, and those West Indian guys in particular can get ****ed. I can genuinely say if I got talented overnight at cricket and played for NZ I'd know I've hit the jackpot in life.
Counterpoint: being a professional sportsman is not the same as a "real" job. Your prime earning years are over by 35 and then, depending on how good you were and your ability to integrate with normal society afterwards, you could still find yourself financially struggling. I don't know if it's as much of a luxury ride you're making it out to be here.
 

thierry henry

Cricketer Of The Year
Not sure why anyone's either surprised or disappointed with Trent's position.
Sure we'll all miss him, but why should he do what the public want him to do.
Well, I'm disappointed because I'm an NZ cricket fan and this is a disappointing outcome for the NZ cricket team.

In terms of "what the public want him to do", this entire forum is essentially a place where we, the public, assess players relative to what we wanted them to do. What other lens is there for us to assess him through? I'm not his life coach. His only relevance to most of us is as a cricketer.

There's way more to life than cricket
yes and no. It's like 99% likely that Trent Boult's cricket career will be by far the most impressive part of Trent Boult's life.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
tl;dr - being paid more money than a doctor (including your talent being developed at no cost to you by NZC) to play cricket for NZ is an amazing job, it's barely a 'real' job compared to the absolute drudgery of most jobs and I will think less of any future players who choose to maximise their bank balance over entertaining their community.

So I'm going to be an outlier on this and I'll preface by saying a 33 year old who has broken his back before is a smart and good guy for looking to secure as much as he can before moving onto his next career. Also being away from family sucks, no matter the money, so that's excluded from what I say below.

So I diverge from the "can't blame the players" narrative. I understand it, but let's call it what it is. Greed. You can't legitimately sit on 200-500k per annum for playing an elaborate game of catch and claim you've been hard done by because professional game players in another country earn more. If New Zealand players start doing this in a New Zealand context, they are entitled man children with no understanding of how the average person lives, and this is understandable because they've never been in that position.

I absolutely would swindle some loser out of millions to bowl half volleys if I could (the KJ move), because my greedy eyes would light up. I freely admit this, but if I was getting paid six figures to be a golden god for NZ then I would not even pretend the NZC money pushed me away. It's the best job in the world ffs. You absolutely can blame the players, and those West Indian guys in particular can get ****ed. I can genuinely say if I got talented overnight at cricket and played for NZ I'd know I've hit the jackpot in life.
The issue of course is that yeah, you're getting paid good money when you're playing, but unlike a doctor who might expect his career to last 40+ years, you can only play for 10 maybe 15 before you'll get nudged into retirement. I don't think anyone's claiming to be hard done by monetarily, more just that these guys (many of whom have no other real skills to fall back on) need to make the most of the fleeting window they have. Nobody wants to be Matthew Sinclair, signing up for the dole after getting forced off his measly domestic contract at 40. And yes, it's probably been at least 5 years since Boult had to worry about anything like that ever happening to him, but as you note the future is terribly uncertain for pretty much all of these guys so I don't judge any of them for making decisions based on financial return above all else.
 

thierry henry

Cricketer Of The Year
Like come on, every Tom Dick and Harry makes babies with their penis and changes nappies and wipes their arses for a while etc. It's like the least impressive non-achievement there is. Hardly 300 test wickets, is it.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Is cricket going to go down the football (soccer) route where ultimately in years to come T20 leagues over-take the international game? And more-so, international windows are created, whereas currently it's the other way round?

It's more just a sign of the times where the mighty $ rules all and players want to set themselves up financially for the future. Bowling 4 overs a day, rather the hard-slog of 20 overs for a normal Test day.

Boult has given NZC a lot, and for me he makes an NZ all-time Test/ODI team. This news doesn't change his legacy.
This would take a couple of generations at least and a paradigm shift in the attitudes of fans.

Too much T20 has seen IPL ratings drop this year and nobody gaf about the expanded Big Bash, the people still want Test cricket.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Counterpoint: being a professional sportsman is not the same as a "real" job. Your prime earning years are over by 35 and then, depending on how good you were and your ability to integrate with normal society afterwards, you could still find yourself financially struggling. I don't know if it's as much of a luxury ride you're making it out to be here.
In the old days when pros earned pretty normal salaries, sure. Now though? Still need the data. Most from the intermediary years seem to have bounced well (the Fleming era).

Sports organisations are very aware of what you say and one of the NZ rep rugby sides (potentially all, but would have to ask) requires you to have a back up option as part of you being contracted. The players are given a lot of info on how to be a normal working person outside sport.

Those 80s cricket players though? Yeah I can imagine there were a lot of issues, and things appear a lot better now.

We literally have no data for the current super-money era though.
 

James

Cricket Web Owner
Too much T20 has seen IPL ratings drop this year and nobody gaf about the expanded Big Bash, the people still want Test cricket.
Does the average fan (non CW people) outside of the big three (India, Australia, England) want regular Test cricket, and do young and upcoming players actually want to play it? Or does the ICC ditch ODI cricket all together outside of World Cups to try and help free space in the the crowded calendar? It feels like Boult is going to open the floodgates to plenty of other NZ cricketers doing the same.

From a players perspective I can understand being a T20 specialist. It gets you more money, you play less cricket (less injury risk), and you get more time with family. It's a no-brainer really I tend to think.

Obviously the Big 3 pay their players a lot more too where the likes of Starc can say no thanks to the IPL, but NZC can't reach high $$$ so the players feel as though they need to take part to make the most of what is typically a short career at the top. Nothing is going to change that though and it's just reality.
 

Flem274*

123/5
The issue of course is that yeah, you're getting paid good money when you're playing, but unlike a doctor who might expect his career to last 40+ years, you can only play for 10 maybe 15 before you'll get nudged into retirement. I don't think anyone's claiming to be hard done by monetarily, more just that these guys (many of whom have no other real skills to fall back on) need to make the most of the fleeting window they have. Nobody wants to be Matthew Sinclair, signing up for the dole after getting forced off his measly domestic contract at 40. And yes, it's probably been at least 5 years since Boult had to worry about anything like that ever happening to him, but as you note the future is terribly uncertain for pretty much all of these guys so I don't judge any of them for making decisions based on financial return above all else.
Skippy was a fringe player in the 00s though, who I probably should have explicitly excluded from my post rather than implicitly.

If guys NZ love dropping at random like Ajaz and Neesham go looking for secure jobs then that's smart and understandable. Don't work somewhere you're not wanted. If KW starts prioritizing his elbow for the IPL though? That's on him. He really doesn't need to financially.

If/when 25 year olds start prioritising dreams of IPL millions rather than NZC six figures (assuming they're not just t20 specialists), yeah those kids can go do one imo.
 

OverratedSanity

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How much more family time will Boult even get if he starts playing more franchise t20? Nz play like 4 tests a year anyway so it's not like he's missing every PTA meeting because nz have a test match that day.
 

thundaboult

International 12th Man
How much more family time will Boult even get if he starts playing more franchise t20? Nz play like 4 tests a year anyway so it's not like he's missing every PTA meeting because nz have a test match that day.
lmao this is true...a valid point...can even the top nz players really complain about burnout? i mean they could but at a risk of sounding pretty silly
 

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