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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Oof, was hard watching the highlights of the SA series and seeing Wagner floating it through at 122kmh in his first spell on day 3. Compare that with the speeds he was bowling at when he used to bully opponents into submission (generally in the 135-142 range) and he looks a totally different bowler. Love the guy, but unless he can find a way to regain the speed that he lost over the 2021 winter he's pretty much done.

Having said it, if you can make it anywhere bowling in the mid 120's, it's in early season England.
 

vandem

International 12th Man
... Phillips is an interesting case, he hasn't done all that wrong but has not made the squad consistently since the Aussie tour. I can't think of why....
Phillips was only called into the test squad in Aust when Williamson and Nicholls were sick before the 3rd test.

Then in the last 2 seasons runs from Conway (as opener) and Mitchell (in #6 batting all rounder spot) meant they were next in line for a middle order spot if Kane or Ross weren't in the XI.

They don't normally carry two spare batters in the test squad, so Phillip's only test opportunity after his debut was on the Indian tour, where he was unlucky not to play the 2nd test (Ravindra's debut match saving innings and I assume Mitchell's T20 + net form got them picked).

Phillips might get a test chance again on the tour to Pakistan in Oct-Nov 2022 (FTP says 2 tests + 3 ODI), perhaps as #6 batting all-rounder with a 3 seamer 1 spinner attack.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
I get all of that but considering the IPL players are not going to be there including Phillips and we have two games vs county sides first up I'm hoping they pick some youth players and not just Ravindra but seeing the squad they picked vs the Dutch I don't have much hope.
 

vandem

International 12th Man
IIRC Stead made some comments about player rotation for the Ireland + Scotland white ball tours which are after the England tests, so I assume some of the white-ball players will go early and be used for the test team warmup games. There are only 2 days between IPL final and 1st test, so risk that Mitchell + Boult (+ Ferguson? + Williamson?) won't be considered for 1st test if their teams make the final, so they won't take any newbies as subs.

There are 5 IPL players that are obvious picks for a 16 person test squad (Williamson, Conway, Mitchell, Southee, Boult). I suspect 4 subs will be used: M Bracewell, Chapman (or Guptill, with Young to #3), D Bracewell, Tickner. Any new faces (e.g. Nathan Smith) won't fly up until the Ireland + Scotland tours.

IPL last round games 19-23 May
IPL qualifiers / elimination / final 25 26 28 30 May (4 top teams)

Eng tour warmup games 20-23 May, 26-29 May
Eng 1st test 2-6 Jun
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Is there a point in using white ball players to play the warm up vs county sides? I don't think so. If they are serious about development and if the regulars are not available I'd rather see long term players tried. Is there a case for Chapman or M Bracewell in red ball cricket? Not right now I guess. Bracewell had a pretty good red ball summer couple of seasons ago but has generally struggled outside of t20. I wasn't even sure how he actually made the one day side vs dutch. I hope NZC doesn't waste this golden opportunity to develop few long term red ball players.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Tom Latham (c), Tom Blundell, Devon Conway, Colin de Grandhomme, Cam Fletcher, Matt Henry, Kyle Jamieson, Daryl Mitchell, Henry Nicholls, Rachin Ravindra, Hamish Rutherford, Tim Southee, Blair Tickner, Neil Wagner, Will Young

That was the squad vs South Africa and don't see that changing.

Add to that Kane and Ajaz. If they are taking just 15 then for me Rutherford and Tickener go out.

If they are adding 5 more then Kane, Ajaz, Phillips, Sears and Cleaver/ Nathan Smith would do for me.
 

Nintendo

International Debutant
Smith was one of the standout bowlers from the most recent Plunket shield and I really don't think sear's style of pace will work too well in England condition's, guys like lee have tried similar modus operando's and failed before, smith seems far more suited and his batting down the order would be a very welcome addition for new zealend's tail issues. Think sear's is gonna be better suited long term as a partnership breaker once Wagner goes, but smith should be first choice in England.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
I really think we need a point of difference sort of bowler with most of our lead bowlers hitting that age where they are not going to be generating as much pace as they did. Either Lockie or Sears are the only two I can think can make a difference with pace and bounce. Besides both also swing the ball at high pace. By chance the decks don't turn out to be conducive for seam and the conditions not good enough to swing, pace is the only way to go. We saw that recently vs South Africa didn't we? Their bowlers were much quicker and had lot more variety to offer.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Is there a point in using white ball players to play the warm up vs county sides? I don't think so. If they are serious about development and if the regulars are not available I'd rather see long term players tried. Is there a case for Chapman or M Bracewell in red ball cricket? Not right now I guess. Bracewell had a pretty good red ball summer couple of seasons ago but has generally struggled outside of t20. I wasn't even sure how he actually made the one day side vs dutch. I hope NZC doesn't waste this golden opportunity to develop few long term red ball players.
Mark Chapman should definitely be considered. He has serious FC runs now for Auckland and NZ A against good teams.

CW tends to focus on players doing well right now plus players we like (understandable) but here some main FC batsmen compared to test regulars. I had a thing comparing these to Guppy's overall FC average of 38 and only including players who exceed it but after checking his Auckland record it is hilariously resurrected so eh whatever.

Devon Conway 2054 @ 66.25 (Wellington only)
Tim Robinson 185 @ 61.66
Kane Williamson 2021 @ 54.62 (Northern Only)
Troy Johnson 751 @ 50.06
Martin Guptill 3162 @ 47.19
Tom Bruce 3959 @ 47.13
Tom Latham 3169 @ 44.63 (Canterbury only)
Will O'Donnell 756 @ 44.47
Will Young 4516 @ 42.60 (Central only)
Greg Hay 6367 @ 41.88
Mark Chapman 2287 @ 41.58
Dane Cleaver 3991 @ 41.14 (wk)
Brad Schmulian 1893 @ 39.43
Glenn Phillips 2736 @ 39.08
Colin de Grandhomme 4508 @ 38.20 (Plunket only)
Daryl Mitchell 3717 @ 37.55 (Plunket Only) (48 since moving to Canterbury)
Henry Nicholls 3000 @ 36.14 (Canterbury only) (hates Canterbury, loves NZ A)


Chapman's results are pretty respectable in comparison to his rivals
 

Flem274*

123/5
I really think we need a point of difference sort of bowler with most of our lead bowlers hitting that age where they are not going to be generating as much pace as they did. Either Lockie or Sears are the only two I can think can make a difference with pace and bounce. Besides both also swing the ball at high pace. By chance the decks don't turn out to be conducive for seam and the conditions not good enough to swing, pace is the only way to go. We saw that recently vs South Africa didn't we? Their bowlers were much quicker and had lot more variety to offer.
i seem to remember a pile of mini-philanders, a massively tall ****, Rabada and Maharaj from that series tbh.

in the 2nd test they just batted better and bowled better with a better balance since our main spinner was injured. In the first test we dicked them. It was a strange series.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Smith was one of the standout bowlers from the most recent Plunket shield and I really don't think sear's style of pace will work too well in England condition's, guys like lee have tried similar modus operando's and failed before, smith seems far more suited and his batting down the order would be a very welcome addition for new zealend's tail issues. Think sear's is gonna be better suited long term as a partnership breaker once Wagner goes, but smith should be first choice in England.
I would like to bring both even if just for a FC domestic run in foreign conditions tbh. Smith and Sears can bowl a Duke ball before they have to do it in something important.
 

Nintendo

International Debutant
I would like to bring both even if just for a FC domestic run in foreign conditions tbh. Smith and Sears can bowl a Duke ball before they have to do it in something important.
Any reason that county's haven't signed guys like Smith or Sears? Seems weird that McAndrew can get a contract but they can't.
 

Chubb

International Debutant
Any reason that county's haven't signed guys like Smith or Sears? Seems weird that McAndrew can get a contract but they can't.
Nathan had a stint as an overseas pro in the Hertfordshire League pre-COVID, but he didn't do as well as hoped. He could be a good option but he doesn't have a high profile outside of NZ yet. McAndrew's in the Big Bash for example.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Any reason that county's haven't signed guys like Smith or Sears? Seems weird that McAndrew can get a contract but they can't.
Club or county? I think most of our players play for clubs during our winter barring some. Nowadays to even qualify as a pro for club cricket you need to have played 3 first class games (could even be 6, not sure of the exact number) .

For county you need to have to represented your country in at least a test match or 3 one dayers or 7 t20Is I think. Or have a uk passport and play as local in which case doesn't require qualifications.

Majority of the firebirds players have a club gig and Nathan Smith must be there already.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Sears was with MCC couple of years ago I think. Jofra Archer was there too? Both uk passport holders I think.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Club cricket in UK is not all that flash anymore like the old days. The new qualifications, getting rid of kolpak means you get lot less players playing club cricket from overseas. Besides every club needs to fund the players on their own and general consensus is that the quality of club cricket in UK isn't all that great anymore.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain

Right decision by Luke Georgeson. I think he's good enough to play for black caps at some point in time. It's not like we're churning young outstanding batsmen and majority of the black caps are nearing or over 30.

Luke Georgeson can be a mainstay in some years if he keeps putting in the hard yards.

That said hope firebirds play him enough and not shaft him if he fails in couple of games. The only way forward is failing particularly for young cricketers.
 

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