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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

SteveNZ

International Captain
It's horse ****, really. There's absolutely no point in the ICC trying to jazz up Test cricket with the WTC then allowing the IPL to fall within a 3 day window of a Test series. I don't blame the players but it puts everyone in a predicament that could be resolved by saying no Test series can start within a week's window of the IPL. There's no point dancing around the fact that is not a good idea.
 

Flem274*

123/5
It's horse ****, really. There's absolutely no point in the ICC trying to jazz up Test cricket with the WTC then allowing the IPL to fall within a 3 day window of a Test series. I don't blame the players but it puts everyone in a predicament that could be resolved by saying no Test series can start within a week's window of the IPL. There's no point dancing around the fact that is not a good idea.
I do.

Well I do and I don't. I think a lot of my thoughts stem from being in my thirties and seeing test cricket for the amazing job it is.

I think the implication that players from smaller boards are hard done by and have no choice but to miss national matches for T20 tournaments is a narrative that could only exist in a profession, and a media dominated by ex-professionals, where none of the workers have ever had to work an everyday job for years on end.

I completely understand taking on a million dollar role for 3 months work. It's life changing money, if you command that sort of bid from franchises.

But let's not pretend earning six figures NZD playing for New Zealand and maybe even being a national or even global fan favourite is anything other than a life changing, golden opportunity and a privileged position 99% of New Zealander's will never know. Playing international cricket is literally one of the best jobs in the world both financially and in terms of engagement. They're being paid to literally have fun and do something we enjoy doing for free in the backyard. Put a couple of hundred grand from your career into an index fund or a high interest savings account and you will never have to work again in your life.

So with that in mind, let's call missing test matches for IPL matches exactly what it is - prioritising extremely life changing money over a dream job with (less) life changing money. That's cool man, if I was 25 and good at white ball cricket I would absolutely do a season or two in the IPL.

I think it's sad though that the West Indian players in particular choose franchise only, but it is also a blessing in disguise. You have to be a little special in the head, a certain type of passionate, to have the discipline to play international sport. We see this at club level where blokes who could easily play FC or maybe higher discover booze, maccas, weed and women. Some get away with it and go further (we all know them too) but many don't.

In a high pressure test match, you want to have the person who isn't all that rational. Supporting sports teams isn't rational in the first place, they usually break your heart and if they make you happy they're still a massive time sink as a fan and highly stressful to follow in the heat of the moment. It's kind of dumb to watch sport, but that's why we love it.

But still, to circle back to the point, we shouldn't normalise the idea that professional sportsmen are hard done by and have no choice but to put club over country, and it would be very pragmatic for national sporting bodies to penalise players who start missing games in favour of their franchise. It flies in the face of why international cricket is so fun and these are highly privileged and loved public figures we're talking about here, not war refugees.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I do.

Well I do and I don't. I think a lot of my thoughts stem from being in my thirties and seeing test cricket for the amazing job it is.

I think the implication that players from smaller boards are hard done by and have no choice but to miss national matches for T20 tournaments is a narrative that could only exist in a profession, and a media dominated by ex-professionals, where none of the workers have ever had to work an everyday job for years on end.

I completely understand taking on a million dollar role for 3 months work. It's life changing money, if you command that sort of bid from franchises.

But let's not pretend earning six figures NZD playing for New Zealand and maybe even being a national or even global fan favourite is anything other than a life changing, golden opportunity and a privileged position 99% of New Zealander's will never know. Playing international cricket is literally one of the best jobs in the world both financially and in terms of engagement. They're being paid to literally have fun and do something we enjoy doing for free in the backyard. Put a couple of hundred grand from your career into an index fund or a high interest savings account and you will never have to work again in your life.

So with that in mind, let's call missing test matches for IPL matches exactly what it is - prioritising extremely life changing money over a dream job with (less) life changing money. That's cool man, if I was 25 and good at white ball cricket I would absolutely do a season or two in the IPL.

I think it's sad though that the West Indian players in particular choose franchise only, but it is also a blessing in disguise. You have to be a little special in the head, a certain type of passionate, to have the discipline to play international sport. We see this at club level where blokes who could easily play FC or maybe higher discover booze, maccas, weed and women. Some get away with it and go further (we all know them too) but many don't.

In a high pressure test match, you want to have the person who isn't all that rational. Supporting sports teams isn't rational in the first place, they usually break your heart and if they make you happy they're still a massive time sink as a fan and highly stressful to follow in the heat of the moment. It's kind of dumb to watch sport, but that's why we love it.

But still, to circle back to the point, we shouldn't normalise the idea that professional sportsmen are hard done by and have no choice but to put club over country, and it would be very pragmatic for national sporting bodies to penalise players who start missing games in favour of their franchise. It flies in the face of why international cricket is so fun and these are highly privileged and loved public figures we're talking about here, not war refugees.
ok
 

Flem274*

123/5
The whole premise that playing cricket is fun really undermines your post. I still play even though every Friday night and Saturday morning before cricket feels like waiting for my execution. The only thing worse than playing cricket is the anticipation of playing cricket.
I used to feel this at school. Now I just watch my flatmates go through it. Much funnier.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The whole premise that playing cricket is fun really undermines your post. I still play even though every Friday night and Saturday morning before cricket feels like waiting for my execution. The only thing worse than playing cricket is the anticipation of playing cricket.
How tall are you?
 

16 tins of Spam

International Vice-Captain
I do.

Well I do and I don't. I think a lot of my thoughts stem from being in my thirties and seeing test cricket for the amazing job it is.

I think the implication that players from smaller boards are hard done by and have no choice but to miss national matches for T20 tournaments is a narrative that could only exist in a profession, and a media dominated by ex-professionals, where none of the workers have ever had to work an everyday job for years on end.

I completely understand taking on a million dollar role for 3 months work. It's life changing money, if you command that sort of bid from franchises.

But let's not pretend earning six figures NZD playing for New Zealand and maybe even being a national or even global fan favourite is anything other than a life changing, golden opportunity and a privileged position 99% of New Zealander's will never know. Playing international cricket is literally one of the best jobs in the world both financially and in terms of engagement. They're being paid to literally have fun and do something we enjoy doing for free in the backyard. Put a couple of hundred grand from your career into an index fund or a high interest savings account and you will never have to work again in your life.

So with that in mind, let's call missing test matches for IPL matches exactly what it is - prioritising extremely life changing money over a dream job with (less) life changing money. That's cool man, if I was 25 and good at white ball cricket I would absolutely do a season or two in the IPL.

I think it's sad though that the West Indian players in particular choose franchise only, but it is also a blessing in disguise. You have to be a little special in the head, a certain type of passionate, to have the discipline to play international sport. We see this at club level where blokes who could easily play FC or maybe higher discover booze, maccas, weed and women. Some get away with it and go further (we all know them too) but many don't.

In a high pressure test match, you want to have the person who isn't all that rational. Supporting sports teams isn't rational in the first place, they usually break your heart and if they make you happy they're still a massive time sink as a fan and highly stressful to follow in the heat of the moment. It's kind of dumb to watch sport, but that's why we love it.

But still, to circle back to the point, we shouldn't normalise the idea that professional sportsmen are hard done by and have no choice but to put club over country, and it would be very pragmatic for national sporting bodies to penalise players who start missing games in favour of their franchise. It flies in the face of why international cricket is so fun and these are highly privileged and loved public figures we're talking about here, not war refugees.
Agree with pretty much all of this.

We keep hearing that the players have to "take care of their families". Well, Kane Williamson and Trent Boult have accumulated IPL contracts north of NZD$10m each so far. Now I understand that's pro rata, and NZC takes a little, and their agents take more, and the taxman more still. But don't try to tell us that they haven't retained a great deal of that money for themselves and their families - more money than most of us will ever see. And on top of that they have endorsement income, their NZC retainers, match fees, and (presumably) investments.

These are wealthy men. I ask this all the time of men far richer but it still stands: how much money is enough? How much before they prioritise their country, and the test matches that both profess to love and prefer?

Meanwhile, Gary Stead opines that the IPL is the "right way forward" for Kane Williamson's recovery. Convenient.
 

ataraxia

International Captain
It looks like the bumper tour of Europe is getting bumperer.

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I think it's great to have proper FC warmups, especially with no A cricket this summer and this being a very important test series IMO.

For those that don't know, after the three-test series (which will be held in June 🌧😭) there will be a host of LOIs vs Ireland, Scotland, and the Netherlands. So half of NZ will be flying up. Cool.
 

Fuller Pilch

International Coach
Good to see Will Young batted 6 hours for 96 to get a draw for Northamptonshire vs Yorkshire in English county. Set 499 to win Northamptonshire batted for 119 overs for the draw (318/7). Young 96 off 241 was dismissed on the last ball of the 94th over.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Who would you guys pick? I'm assuming its 18-20 again.

Williamson
Conway
Latham
Nicholls
Young
Phillips
Ravindra

CdG
Mitchell
Smith

Blundell
Cleaver or Fletcher

Southee
Jamieson
Wagner
Boult
Henry
Ferguson

Ajaz
Somerville
Good of Surrey to get him nicely acclimatised before the tour. When is the tour party announced and the tour thread started?
first tour game May 20th, so the tour party must be announced very soon.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Will Young in good form bodes well...

I wouldn't even go about guessing the team to be selected. Obviously going to back everyone that is selected but going by the team we had vs Netherlands I think they will be unimaginative, pick players who are over 30 as bare minimum qualification.

Of late not been a fan of selections, way too many changes, not consistent with selections and we keep going backwards without an eye on the future.

If it's 20 men squad then it'll be the same 15 we had vs SA, add Kane, Ajaz and maybe 3 more players that are over 30 :laugh: To be fair the playing xi pick themselves.

Latham
Young
Kane
Conway
Nicholls
CDG
Blundell
Kyle/Henry
Southee
Boult
Hopefully Ajaz
 

Chubb

International Debutant
Young would have been quite lucky to keep his place if NZ had more home tests after the SA series, but he has been in good form so it's not unreasonable to keep him in for England, as much as I'd like to see Ravindra.
 

Fuller Pilch

International Coach
Will Young in good form bodes well...

I wouldn't even go about guessing the team to be selected. Obviously going to back everyone that is selected but going by the team we had vs Netherlands I think they will be unimaginative, pick players who are over 30 as bare minimum qualification.

Of late not been a fan of selections, way too many changes, not consistent with selections and we keep going backwards without an eye on the future.

If it's 20 men squad then it'll be the same 15 we had vs SA, add Kane, Ajaz and maybe 3 more players that are over 30 :laugh: To be fair the playing xi pick themselves.

Latham
Young
Kane
Conway
Nicholls
CDG
Blundell
Kyle/Henry
Southee
Boult
Hopefully Ajaz
Don't rule out Wagner. He bowled well in England last year. I really hope Phillips tours.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Don't rule out Wagner. He bowled well in England last year. I really hope Phillips tours.
Yes 100% particularly against England with dukes ball... a massive headache coming selectors way I suppose choosing bowling options. If they have to play Wagner they have to keep out one of Ajaz, Boult or Kyle. I suppose if the players from IPL are going to be under cooked for test cricket or likely going to miss out having plenty too much cricket/MIQ it'll make the management job easy. I feel at least couple or three players involved in IPL will prefer sitting out for the first game.

Phillips is an interesting case, he hasn't done all that wrong but has not made the squad consistently since the Aussie tour. I can't think of why.

I'm not feeling all that enthusiastic about the series in England. England will have a new captain, their bowling will be definitely better this time around although our bowlers vs their batsmen will make it up for whatever good England may summon I suppose :laugh:
 
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Flem274*

123/5
Phillips hasn't scored big Plunket or A runs since Australia iirc. Conway and Young left him in the dust.

Edit - looked up last season and he was hampered by lack of opportunity and ruthlessness. Averaged 49 from 4 games with 4 fifties.

Last seasons big scorers are guys the establishment is probably skeptical of - Bruce, Kelly and Rutherford. Some A cricket would be good....
 

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