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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not convinced with Houpapa. Granted, I've only seen him 3 or 4 times, but he doesn't look to have much technique. I don't think he looks much of a test player, possibly ODI, but he'll have to improve on his technique to succeed at test level.
He looked decent from what I have seen of him, played some powerful shots and was also quite good through the covers. Admittedly I'm not much of a technique judge, but it will be interesting to see how Houpapa goes for Auckland this season.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Can anyone remember the last time Oram and Styris both produced good performances with the bat in the same innings or even in the same test? It always seems that only one of them will do when playing together in tests.


But then, that applies for the entire NZ team. Someone will make 100 and the next best score is 50 from Vettori...
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can anyone remember the last time Oram and Styris both produced good performances with the bat in the same innings or even in the same test? It always seems that only one of them will do when playing together in tests.

But then, that applies for the entire NZ team. Someone will make 100 and the next best score is 50 from Vettori...
http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1704
and
http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1707
 

Flem274*

123/5
Just to raise a different point I'd like to see McCullum up the top of the order again in ODI's. Not as a hitter though. He should just play naturally. He seems to me like a strike feeder. He can feed the strike to the firepower and put away the bad ball for a boundary. If early wickets fall he is also an excellent rebuilder of the innings so he could fill that role .Would be great to have, plus he Taylor and Vincent are electric between the wickets.

Also to fill the no.6 role instead of Oram who I see as a No.7 I decided to use a specialist batsman who has a cool head and can fill many roles ranging from 50 from 60 needed at 240/5 to 2/5 early in the innings. I chose Fulton. He is calm under pressure and is very versatile. That CH 50 at 5 or 6 was one of my favourite Fulton innings. I think he could do it. My second choice would be Fleming.

A team like

Vincent
McCullum
Taylor
Fleming
Styris
Fulton
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Patel
Bond
 

Pup Clarke

International Captain
McCullum imo is much more suited at 6 or 7 where he can make full use of his hitting ability in the final 10 overs of a odi match. For a NZ odi team I'd like to see...

Stephen Fleming
Lou Vincent
Ross Taylor
Scott Styris
Peter Fulton
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Kyle Mills
Shane Bond
Jeetan Patel

That imo should be NZ's X1 when all fit.
 

Flem274*

123/5
McCullum imo is much more suited at 6 or 7 where he can make full use of his hitting ability in the final 10 overs of a odi match. For a NZ odi team I'd like to see...

Stephen Fleming
Lou Vincent
Ross Taylor
Scott Styris
Peter Fulton
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Kyle Mills
Shane Bond
Jeetan Patel

That imo should be NZ's X1 when all fit.
Yeah the thing is though is that Fleming aint an opener and Oram aint a no.6 but that team is a reasonable comprimise.

P.S. On a sidenote am I the only one that thinks that Fulton is a beter batsman then Taylor atm? Everyone (mainly on radio) goes on about how good Taylor is but IMO Fulton has had a much better career to date.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Yeah the thing is though is that Fleming aint an opener and Oram aint a no.6 but that team is a reasonable comprimise.

P.S. On a sidenote am I the only one that thinks that Fulton is a beter batsman then Taylor atm? Everyone (mainly on radio) goes on about how good Taylor is but IMO Fulton has had a much better career to date.
Fleming's been an okay opener in ODI's. Has more runs there than any other position, and more centuries.

My team would be:

1. L Vincent*
2. S Fleming
3. P Fulton
4. R Taylor
5. S Styris
6. J Oram
7. B McCullum+
8. D Vettori
9. K Mills
10. J Patel
11. S Bond


Patel and Gillespie interchangeable depending on pitch.
 

Pup Clarke

International Captain
Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie...:sleep:. What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.
 
Last edited:

HeathDavisSpeed

Hall of Fame Member
Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie...:sleep:. What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.
Tama Canning went back to Western Australia in a huff after being hauled over the coals for a disciplinary reason in November 2006. No chance of him ever playing again.

Daryl Tuffey is just plain crap. I want to find the selector who chose him for the World Cup and throw dog faeces at their house.

Iain O'Brien had a great season, but along with Aldridge - probably one of the most consistant first class performers in recent years - is getting on a bit and isn't seen to have as much ability to take international wickets - neither has the pace of Gillespie. O'Brien and Aldridge are much more consistant, and get a decent amount of movement, but don't really seem to be in contention at the moment.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
Daryl Tuffey is just plain crap. I want to find the selector who chose him for the World Cup and throw dog faeces at their house.
I disagree. He was once one of the most reliable NZ bowlers and after his injury he only managed to play pretty much part of the domestic season. He was not in a position to go to the world cup because of a lack of fitness. If he can just raise his pace to what it was, he could be in the team once again. Of course accuracy is first and foremost most important. So my perspective is, he doesn't get "crap" after an injury he was quite decent and I enjoyed his bowling. Unless he had to dramatically change his action I would think that being in black again next year could in fact be a possibility :ph34r:

Some of his bowling wan't looking all that bad when playing before the world cup but he couldn't keep it accurate enough or have enough pace to trouble them.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie...:sleep:. What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.
Aldridge should have made it before Gillespie. Gillespie just shows more pace than our general seemers which had people excited about him but really his in-accuracy and expense is probably more thwarting to our team than someone like Martin who could probably be a bit more consistent. Aldridge provides consistency generally and consistantly takes a lot of wickets every domestic season.

O'Brien has been playing very well lately. I could imagine seeing him again in the Test team. Canning is out of the picture completely. There is a little bit of depth but i'd say there is more depth in our batting rather than our bowling at the present moment. We'll just have to wait and see how the younger J McMillans etc. turn out.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
It is good that everyone has placed Fleming in their squads they decided. It's good that people still have some confidence in his ability. He has had a lot of criticism as of late but IMO he hasn't really been that bad. He just has his patches of good and bad. Your squads looked pretty good and similar. I would put Papps as a back-up to Fleming and Martin :blink: as a back-up to Patel.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Hall of Fame Member
Of course accuracy is first and foremost most important. So my perspective is, he doesn't get "crap" after an injury he was quite decent and I enjoyed his bowling. Unless he had to dramatically change his action I would think that being in black again next year could in fact be a possibility :ph34r:

Some of his bowling wan't looking all that bad when playing before the world cup but he couldn't keep it accurate enough or have enough pace to trouble them.
Okay. I'll clarify my position rather than hanging on my previous sweeping statement. Tuffey had been out and had not been at anywhere near his best since the injury he sustained on the last tour of England. He had been in poor form (certainly not form deserving of an international call-up) for his state all season and his callup came out of the blue ahead of more deserving, in form players. He then proceeded to show a lack of pace, a lack of energy, a lack of aggression and poor accuracy in the ODIs he did play. For him then to get a call up to the World Cup when he was clearly short of match fitness was a real slap in the face for those domestic workhorses whose fitness was never in doubt and who were clearly in better form. This does not preclude Tuffey from reaching international match fitness, but clearly it is difficult to reach previous peaks (especially in terms of pace) when you have been out for so long with a string of injuries. Ask Ian Butler, Shayne O'Connor and one HT Davis as they've all been there and suffered from the same underlying problem. The only person who seems capable of getting back to the previous heights is Shane Bond... And how he does it, god only knows.

:-O. Heath you really can't talk...
Harsh. Heath is not in contention and is feeling a little old for a comeback anyway :p
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Hall of Fame Member
Aldridge provides consistency generally and consistantly takes a lot of wickets every domestic season.
Aldridge didn't do himself any favours with *that* last over against Auckland in the 20:20 this year. That showed a real problem with coping under pressure.

(for those who didn't see it, Auckland needed 11 runs from 1 ball - Aldridge bowled a no-ball which Andre Adams hit for four and then his second attempt at a last ball got belted out of the park for six)

Regardless of whether making an assessment of a player based on a couple of balls of one match is right or not, that performance certainly would not have escaped the notice of the selection team. Hopefully, he can put a good, solid performance in on this year's A Tour and get himself in contention. He'd be a decent number 9/10 I reckon. Possibly test rather than ODIs as well.
 

Flem274*

123/5
With regards to bowlers I am of the strong belief that Martin and Mason should not be ahead of guys like O'Brien, McMillan, Gillespie, Aldridge etc. In fact I'd love to see O'Brien especially get a call up this year.
 

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
I'd rather see Patel and Vettori in the side all the time.

Bond, Mills, Oram, Vettori, Patel, Styris

And about McCullum opening, he is much better down the order!
 

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