The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[GirthQuake]

Where does JaiSWOLE in that best bat list?

And what is a hobbs?

 

[TheJediBrah]

What does Joey Swole have to do with this

 

[Coronis]

ordered alphabetically within tier

Bradman

Hobbs Smith Sobers Tendulkar

Gavaskar Hammond Hutton Lara Sutcliffe

Barrington Chappell Kallis Ponting Richards Sangakkara

 

[Line and Length]

Most have 3 or 4 distinct tiers for the batsmen with just one at the highest level.
How would a ranking of the bowlers? I can see each tier getting larger as we go down.
A possible ranking (alphabetical again)

Level 1: Marshall, McGrath, Muralitharan; Warne.

Level 2: Ambrose, Hadlee, O'Reilly, Steyn.

Level 3: Grimmett, Imran Khan, Laker, Lillee, Trueman, Verity, Wasim Akram.

Level 4: Donald, Garner, Holding, Kumble, Lindwall, Roberts, Tayfield. Oops - I've overlooked Ashwin (and Anderson).

 

[capt_Luffy]

Most have 3 or 4 distinct tiers for the batsmen with just one at the highest level.
How would a ranking of the bowlers? I can see each tier getting larger as we go down.
A possible ranking (alphabetical again)

Level 1: Marshall, McGrath, Muralitharan; Warne.

Level 2: Ambrose, Hadlee, O'Reilly, Steyn.

Level 3: Grimmett, Imran Khan, Laker, Lillee, Trueman, Verity, Wasim Akram.

Level 4: Donald, Garner, Holding, Kumble, Lindwall, Roberts, Tayfield. Oops - I've overlooked Ashwin (and Anderson).

That's a good tier list, but I don't know should Donald, Garner and Holding be in a tier below Grimmett and Laker; and in the same one with Ashwin, Kumble and Anderson.

 

[honestbharani]

Spinners -

Murali Warne O'Reilly

Ashwin Kumble Laker Grimmett Verity

Rest

 

[capt_Luffy]

I would go:

Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee/Barnes

Murali/Warne/Steyn/Ambrose/Wasim/Imran

O'Reilly/Lillee/Trueman/Donald/Holding/Garner/ Lindwall/Davidson

Waqar/Walsh/Cummins/Pollock/Roberts/Ashwin/ Laker/Grimmett/Verity/Anderson/Kumble/Procter

 

[Line and Length]

Spinners -

Murali Warne O'Reilly

Ashwin Kumble Laker

Rest

Grimmett and Verity should be included in the second group.

 

[honestbharani]

Grimmett and Verity should be included in the second group.

Probably.. I am not usually much into ranking the historical greats except some obvious ones. I will take your word for it and add them there.

 

[Coronis]

Eh I personally am not a fan of directly comparing pacers and spinners

 

[Prince EWS]

Eh I personally am not a fan of directly comparing pacers and spinners

Selectors and captains have to directly compare pacers and spinners all the time.

It makes far more sense than the majority of cross-country, cross-era comparisons we make.

 

[honestbharani]

Selectors and captains have to directly compare pacers and spinners all the time.

To judge who would be more useful for a particular game on a given track, not to judge who has had the better career, tbf.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I'd go something like:

Hadlee/Marshall/McGrath/Woakes
O'Reilly/Imran/Ambrose/Warne/Murali/Steyn
[Other ATG quicks]

 

[honestbharani]

I think its far easier and fairer to just rank the players you have seen in your time of watching cricket. The ATG tiers of the players I have seen

Batsmen - Lara, Sachin, Smith, Viv
Ponting, Sanga, Kallis, Dravid, Root, KW, Virat etc.

Fast Bowlers - Ambrose, McGrath, Steyn, Wasim
Waqar, Anderson, Walsh etc.

Spinners - Murali, Warne
Ashwin, Kumble
Herath, Lyon, Harbhajan etc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think its far easier and fairer to just rank the players you have seen in your time of watching cricket. The ATG tiers of the players I have seen

Batsmen - Lara, Sachin, Smith, Viv
Ponting, Sanga, Kallis, Dravid, Root, KW, Virat etc.

Fast Bowlers - Ambrose, McGrath, Steyn, Wasim
Waqar, Anderson, Walsh etc.

Spinners - Murali, Warne
Ashwin, Kumble
Herath, Lyon, Harbhajan etc.

Wtf is Harbi doing in the ATG spinners tier???

 

[howitzer]

Tiers for bowlers.
McGrath, Marshall, Hadlee
Steyn, Ambrose, Imran, Barnes, Warne, Murali
Lillee, Donald, Wasim, O'Reilly
Garner, Lindwall, Trueman
Holding, Waqar, Davidson, Verity, Grimmett (Cummins?)
Pollock, Tayfield, Walsh, Roberts, Ashwin, Anderson, Laker (Cummins?)

The bottom tier consists of players I might give ATG status on a good day and listed in order of likelihood of me considering them ATG on a given day. The others are just tiered. Current players are trickier to judge than others and I'm in two minds as to whether Cummins has done enough by now to be considered a guaranteed ATG. If he isn't then he'd be at the very top of tier 6 but I'm erring towards the 'he's done enough' brigade. I've not considered 19th century bowlers like Lohmann, Spofforth, Turner and Briggs here. They are a whole other level of difficult to judge their status.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Bradman ( + WG Grace )

Gavaskar, Sobers, Sachin, Lara, Viv, Pollock, Hutton, Hobbs, Headley, Hammond, Smith, Ranjit Singhji, Trumper, B.Richards

G. Chappell, Ponting, Sutcliffe, Sangakkara, Border, Weekes, Worrell, Miandad, Dravid.. Etc

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sydney Barnes

Akram, Marshall, Hadlee, Lillee, Steyn, Mcgrath, Murali, Warne, Trueman

Donald, Imran, Ambrose, Waqar, Holding, Garner.. Etc

 

[kyear2]

I would go:

Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee/Barnes

Murali/Warne/Steyn/Ambrose/Wasim/Imran

O'Reilly/Lillee/Trueman/Donald/Holding/Garner/ Lindwall/Davidson

Waqar/Walsh/Cummins/Pollock/Roberts/Ashwin/ Laker/Grimmett/Verity/Anderson/Kumble/Procter

Not trying to bring that cluster**** over here, but you spent the entire day arguing that Ash was an ATG to have him 24th? None of those guys in that tier are ATGs to be honest.

Sorry, not in my humble opinion, I should clarify.

I don't think we rank him far apart, you just have a much wider range for what's ATG.

 

[kyear2]

Most have 3 or 4 distinct tiers for the batsmen with just one at the highest level.
How would a ranking of the bowlers? I can see each tier getting larger as we go down.
A possible ranking (alphabetical again)

Level 1: Marshall, McGrath, Muralitharan; Warne.

Level 2: Ambrose, Hadlee, O'Reilly, Steyn.

Level 3: Grimmett, Imran Khan, Laker, Lillee, Trueman, Verity, Wasim Akram.

Level 4: Donald, Garner, Holding, Kumble, Lindwall, Roberts, Tayfield. Oops - I've overlooked Ashwin (and Anderson).

Ummm

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee

Steyn, Warne, Muralitharan, Ambrose

Imran, Donald, O'Reilly, Lillee, Garner

Trueman, Wasim, Holding