The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[trundler]

Root > KP and there's no doubt about that

 

[vcs]

Which format? KP is ahead in Tests by some margin. ODIs, it's probably Root, KP pulled out some brilliant knocks especially that blazing start to his career but was fairly inconsistent in that format IIRC.

 

[trundler]

Yeah I was talking about ODIs. Root is a lot more consistent and gets 100s with a ridiculous frequency, part of that is down to the era we're in but overall he's much better imo.

 

[honestbharani]

It is also a function of the kind of team they have and his role in it. I would say his role is to bat long and get 80-100 minimum and the others blasting away at the other end enables him to do just that without having to play beyond himself most times. That is why I still don't put him in the same level as Rohit, Kohli, AB etc. Of course, he is definitely reaching ATG levels overall in ODIs but not quite creme de la creme yet for me.

 

[Flem274*]

rohit is a spud away from motorways. root crushes him.

 

[vcs]

This is not 2013 anymore haha. Rohit showed plenty of guts against SA in the WC last year on a tricky pitch, to name just one example. He's also made runs against Starc and co. in Australia, scoring well over half the team runs. In any case, more than 80% of modern ODI cricket is played on motorways so it's a moot point.

 

[Flem274*]

im sure he's done plenty in jamodis. guptill tonned up against starc and mates at the mcg a year after he was meant to. fair point on the wc knock, though i can't remember how the deck was tricky.

never feared him and never will. if it moves, he nicks it. if it doesn't move, he scores a million. completely predictable player.

 

[harsh.ag]

Root's a better batsman, but Rohit's achieved more

flem's perception might be coloured by Rohit's bad record against NZ

But he has dominated in England, so the "if it moves, he nicks it" thing is hardly a sure thing

 

[marc71178]

Agree with your overall contention that 2010-11 Smith shouldn't really be considered when judging Smith the batsman but from what I recall he wasn't really picked as an all-rounder in 2010-11. He was picked as batsman, but he definitely shouldn't have been. Might have bowled a bit at Sydney I think but that's about it.

Interesting how that similar argument is dismissed when people talk about not judging Anderson or Broad when he was picked too early.

 

[Flem274*]

Root's a better batsman, but Rohit's achieved more

flem's perception might be coloured by Rohit's bad record against NZ

But he has dominated in England, so the "if it moves, he nicks it" thing is hardly a sure thing

jamodis in england have been pretty benign to batting since 2015. the world cup was a nice callback to real odis. i wouldn't say the wc decks were bowlers decks, just fair decks. there were some big scores and plenty of 250-300 iirc, though everyone playing their best bowlers also helped.

my view might be coloured by when i see him most, which is in nz/aus/eng since that's where most of our tv cricket comes from here due to the murdoch empire.

i put rohit in with the likes of guptill and roy - if she's flat they can smash anyone, but if it's moving then they're in trouble. the closer to test conditions, the more they'll struggle basically.

 

[harsh.ag]

jamodis in england have been pretty benign to batting since 2015. the world cup was a nice callback to real odis. i wouldn't say the wc decks were bowlers decks, just fair decks. there were some big scores and plenty of 250-300 iirc, though everyone playing their best bowlers also helped.

my view might be coloured by when i see him most, which is in nz/aus/eng since that's where most of our tv cricket comes from here due to the murdoch empire.

i put rohit in with the likes of guptill and roy - if she's flat they can smash anyone, but if it's moving then they're in trouble. the closer to test conditions, the more they'll struggle basically.

"If it's moving then they're in trouble" is right, but there are different degrees of trouble and Rohit's done enough to put him a tier above Guppy and Roy (who basically cried out for flatter pitches in the World Cup while Rohit was dominating on them)

 

[Pothas]

Isn't it close between him and Buttler?

It is Buttler for me, there are more players around that are like Root.

We would never have got the amazing finish without it but still kind of gets to me that he got out when he did in the final, was ridiculous how much better he looked than every other player in that match.

 

[Red]

Root > KP and there's no doubt about that

both in my recently drafted team, it should be noted.

 

[Red]

Last few years have really improved Englands ATG ODI XI

Bairstow
Roy
Root
Pietersen
Flintoff
Stokes
Buttler
Botham
Swann
Gough
Willis

 

[Daemon]

Yeah the batting was pretty atrocious before this generation arrived. I'd even fancy the current XI's chances against some of those guys. Now there's a genuine ATG in Buttler and I'm even struggling to fit Morgan in there somehow.

 

[Spark]

Yeah the batting was pretty atrocious before this generation arrived. I'd even fancy the current XI's chances against some of those guys. Now there's a genuine ATG in Buttler and I'm even struggling to fit Morgan in there somehow.

Morgan played 100 more ODIs than Pietersen and captained a WC winning side. Should be first to close picked, certainly over KP.

 

[trundler]

Lamb has to be in there for nostalgia alone. 4 years ago Tresco and Knight would've opened for that side, which isn't bad but a step down from some of the better teams.

 

[bagapath]

Last few years have really improved Englands ATG ODI XI

Bairstow
Roy
Root
Pietersen
Flintoff
Stokes
Buttler
Botham
Swann
Gough
Willis

such a good team...

used to be

Knight
Trescothick
Pietersen
Lamb
Fairbrother
Stewart +
Flintoff
Botham
Emburey
Gough
Willis

 

[ImpatientLime]

Lamb has to be in there for nostalgia alone. 4 years ago Tresco and Knight would've opened for that side, which isn't bad but a step down from some of the better teams.

trescothick hit 12 centuries in an absolutely dog **** era for england tbf

was a fine odi batsman

 

[morgieb]

trescothick hit 12 centuries in an absolutely dog **** era for england tbf

was a fine odi batsman

Both of them are fine but is it the same standard as say Rohit and Sachin, or Gilchrist and Watson (or which ever second opener you can think of)?

Bairstow definitely helps boost it.

But yeah five years ago England had a pretty weak ATG batting lineup in ODI's. Root and Buttler can probably be considered ATG's in the format now and the others may well get there.