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Tell me how a Kane Williamson is an ATG?

HeathDavisSpeed

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not sure what it is about Kane Williamson that attracts so much, I dunno, strength of feeling and tendencies towards confirmation bias-based statistical 'analysis'. Anyway, Majestic and Ron Wesley should meet up and have a chat. Maybe launch their own podcast on the subject.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Re poster


The thread title literally asks other to tell you why they think KDub is an ATG. If you raise a point, surely you expect it to be debated.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
trundler said:
Yep I'm all for being a hater because the kiwis on here go a little overboard with suggestions such as Southee being better than Anderson but it's plainly silly to pretend Williamson isn't a great
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Tbf, peak Southee (roughly mid 2012 - mid 2022) was not far behind Anderson and probably roughly on par with Broad IMO. The fact that Southee had few opportunities to bowl to Australia at home in this period I think affects how he's remembered when people compare them.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Rob Wesley said:
Already answered just above. Refer that as well.

For Kane, it is not some countries. It is the top 5 countries of his era I have taken. There was a clear decline beyond this as SL and Pak have been below par during Williamson time.

Now, do the same for Sehwag. In his era, SL had Murali and Pak were a good side too with Akhtar in it. He did well in Australia also. Also, he was obviously a different breed of cricketer- Attacking opening batsman with high strike rate.

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Pakistan were a dominant side in UAE throughout the 2010's, with lop-sided winning records v England and Australia during this period. NZ were the only SENA country that managed to win a series there in that period. And KW was absolutely critical to NZ's successes in both 2014 and 2018.

Stick the boot into KW all you want for his records in England and India, he's been under par in both. But trying to dismiss his record in the UAE is twisting facts to suit a theory. His record in SA, is also so sparse as to be meaningless: Two tests when he was still a fetus in 2012, one where the game was abandoned before he had a chance to bat, and one more where he top-scored in the first innings before running out of partners (and where the ball started rolling along the ground in the second innings).
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
Prince EWS said:
This is a point I think I can remember @Uppercut or @Howe_zat making about other players.
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Also (like most things I say here tbf) something I've repeated time and time again about KW.

I think NZ fans should just embrace it tbh. We don't get given 5-match test series against the big 3, the way our schedule works it's imperative we win these games against the "lesser" sides. Our improvement in Kane's era is massively to do with becoming much more consistent at beating the teams we should beat. As consistent as we've been at doing that, it often hasn't come easily and Kane's runs have been crucial. iirc he has a notably exceptional record in terms of 4th innings runs and runs in wins. Time and again he has got us home in eminently losable games where his runs have been critical even though the opposing bowling might not be strong on paper.

I hate being the "anti stats" guy but anyone who has watched Kane bat at home and seen all of the times he's won us test matches knows that those runs were meaningful. They're meaningful because we're NZ, we don't have a history of taking test match/series wins for granted, and we were by no means inevitably going to win all of those tests.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
Basically, KW averaging 80 or whatever in home test wins against modest opposition isn't some black mark on his career, to a large extent it's exactly what's made him such a great player and what's driven NZ's improvement.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bahnz said:
Pakistan were a dominant side in UAE throughout the 2010's, with lop-sided winning records v England and Australia during this period. NZ were the only SENA country that managed to win a series there in that period. And KW was absolutely critical to NZ's successes in both 2014 and 2018.

But trying to dismiss his record in the UAE is twisting facts to suit a theory.
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Yeah facing Yasir Shah in the UAE was one of the toughest ever challenges in cricket.
He took 116 wickets in 17 tests (WPM of 6.82!!) at a fast bowler's strike rate of 50.

Yet Williamson scored big matchwinning runs against him.
 
X

Xix2565

International Vice-Captain
I'll be honest, twisting yourself into thinking Kane isn't an ATG is pretty stupid. No clue why people want to be stupid, isn't it generally not a good thing? Is there some financial/emotional benefit to being stupid? @Rob Wesley please elaborate on this.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
thierry henry said:
Basically, KW averaging 80 or whatever in home test wins against modest opposition isn't some black mark on his career, to a large extent it's exactly what's made him such a great player and what's driven NZ's improvement.
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I didn't know KW was scoring so heavily in wins. Definitely makes his ATG claim much weaker.
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
Uppercut said:
Yeah this was me. As an Ireland fan I would 100% take Kane over the weird CW Ideal of a batsman with perfectly evenly distributed runs across all countries and teams. A run machine at home would win us so many more games.
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Why have one Kane when you can have two?
 
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