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Super 14 2009 Discussion and Fantasy League

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
So 's Olivier.

Four tries to nil Bulls.
1 (typical) try from Wynand and the MOTM award.

Unlucky if he doesn't get a gig against the Lions. The backline should be Du Preez 9, Morne Steyn 10, Habana 11, Olivier 12, de Villiers 13, JP 14, Kirchner 15.

With Pienaar and Frans Steyn/Jaque Fourie the utility backs on the bench.
 
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Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Only managed to watch the game this evening though didn't know the result - not sure I would've bothered had I heard of the margin! Sensational performance from the Bulls, superb defence and brutal on attack. I actually don't think the Chiefs were that bad, and the score mounted in the second half when they played much of it in their own 22 because they couldn't afford to kick the ball away IMO. I'm sure the Lions (from the UK, not Jo'burg) won't be relaxing much, given I'm sure a considerable number of Bulls will make the Springboks.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
1 (typical) try from Wynand and the MOTM award.

Unlucky if he doesn't get a gig against the Lions. The backline should be Du Preez 9, Morne Steyn 10, Habana 11, Olivier 12, de Villiers 13, JP 14, Kirchner 15.

With Pienaar and Frans Steyn/Jaque Fourie the utility backs on the bench.
Can't argue much with the backline, am still not 100% convinced on Zach Kirchner - though deserves a chance at international level to show his worth. Great depth too with such versatile substitutes.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
1 (typical) try from Wynand and the MOTM award.

Unlucky if he doesn't get a gig against the Lions. The backline should be Du Preez 9, Morne Steyn 10, Habana 11, Olivier 12, de Villiers 13, JP 14, Kirchner 15.

With Pienaar and Frans Steyn/Jaque Fourie the utility backs on the bench.
Nah, not Kirchner. Weakest link in the Bulls line, and that's including Akona.

Fourie at 13, Terblanche or Ludik at 15.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Nah, not Kirchner. Weakest link in the Bulls line, and that's including Akona.

Fourie at 13, Terblanche or Ludik at 15.
I think Zane is a quality 15 in the making, solid kicking game, great runner and an adept passer. Whatever system De Villiers employs, a deep running game from the back or a more conservative kicking game seen during the winter tests, Kirchner can excel in both. And unlike Percy, he can put himself about a bit.

Terblanche is too old, won’t be around come 2011 and he had a shocker in the Sharks most important game of the season. I like the look of Ludik but he isn’t as rounded as Zane.

Steyn (Frans), Fourie and JP can all provide cover in the full-back position from the squad. But the latter two don’t have a kicking game of any great note whilst Steyn’s kicking game is hit and miss at the best of times and the Lions are not going to play ‘total rugby’, aerial bombardment and testing out the full-backs kicking game is what they are going to do.

And weakest link in the Bulls back line, that has to be Jaco Pretorius.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
And weakest link in the Bulls back line, that has to be Jaco Pretorius.
Haha, fair point. Quality missed try on Saturday. Didn't watch the semi but apparently Delport did a decent job there so could be a future alternatie at 13?

I think Zane is a quality 15 in the making, solid kicking game, great runner and an adept passer. Whatever system De Villiers employs, a deep running game from the back or a more conservative kicking game seen during the winter tests, Kirchner can excel in both.
It says something about just how poor this Lions crop is that SA can afford to run out players for 2011 :mellow:

He's more than decent near the ball - but his kicking length isn't that solid, too long to really make a decent fist of chasing, but too close to the line of offside players that the attacker can weave through. (That said, the Chiefs' first try yesterday was really Morne's fault, not Zane's - left it a couple of seconds too late to cover his man.) Also, he has some problems positioning and defending against the counter-attack - had a fairly poor game against the Crusaders up in Christchurch IIRC, before the Bulls' dream run started. I think selecting Kirchner will just invite the Lions to kick it deep, and they actually have a chance of winning the kicking battle then - the Bulls' problems this year have been when they've been pegged back into the 22, because they haven't been able to clear their lines, while the Sharks haven't been that easy to score on when pegged back, their problems were rather related to how little structure there was in the attack when Pienaar went out. That led to poor passing and handling errors. That's closer to the ruck than Terblanche's problem (yes, I know he had 3-4 kicks out on the full against the Waratahs, but Bakkies and Matfield will win the line-out anyway, so that's not a problem :p )

Steyn (Frans), Fourie and JP can all provide cover in the full-back position from the squad. But the latter two don’t have a kicking game of any great note whilst Steyn’s kicking game is hit and miss at the best of times and the Lions are not going to play ‘total rugby’, aerial bombardment and testing out the full-backs kicking game is what they are going to do.
Agree mostly here, but Steyn is injured, no? (And totting off to Racing City in Paris in August, so the 2011 argument rears its head again).
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
And after all that, de Villiers picks neither.

Edit: The full squad.

Front row
B du Plessis, Sharks
T Mtawarira, Sharks
J Smit (c), Sharks
G Steenkamp, Bulls
C Ralepelle, Bulls
D Carstens, Sharks

Locks
A Bekker, Stormers
V Matfield, Bulls
B Botha (vc), Bulls
D Rossouw, Bulls

Flankers
S Burger, Stormers
R Kankowski, Sharks
J Smith, Cheetahs
P Spies, Bulls

Halfbacks
F du Preez, Bulls
R Januarie, Stormers
M Steyn, Bulls
R Pienaar, Sharks

Centres
J de Villiers, Stormers
J Fourie, Lions
F Steyn, Sharks
A Jacobs, Sharks
W Olivier, Bulls

Wings
B Habana, Bulls
O Ndungane, Sharks (wtf?! If you want to pick a twin, pick Akona...)
J Nokwe, Lions
JP Pietersen, Sharks

Fullback (I suppose)
E Rose, Lions

Interesting. No genuine full-back at all there.
 
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TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
****. Rose had a shocker at 15 from all reports in Windhoek.

Januarie and Chilliboy shouldn't be there. And Carstens over du Dr. Plessis?

No real FB is crazy, as is the non-selection of Brussouw.

And here is the Emerging Springboks Squad...

Forwards (12):
Jacques Botes – Sharks
Jean Deysel – Sharks
Wian du Preez – Vodacom Cheetahs
Werner Kruger – Vodacom Blue Bullsv Patrick Cilliers – Sharks
Tiaan Liebenberg – Vodacom Western Province
Bandisa Maku – Vodacom Blue Bulls
Dewald Potgieter – Vodacom Blue Bulls – Captain
Wilhelm Steenkamp – Vodacom Blue Bulls
Steven Sykes – Sharks
Franco van der Merwe – Xerox Lions
Duane Vermeulen – Vodacom Western Province

Backs (10):

Heini Adams – Vodacom Blue Bulls
Bjorn Basson – GWK Griquas
Burton Francis – Vodacom Blue Bulls
Zane Kirchner – Vodacom Blue Bulls
Louis Ludik – Xerox Lions
Morgan Newman – Vodacom Western Province
Earl Rose – Xerox Lions :huh:
Deon van Rensburg – Platinum Leopards
Jano Vermaak – Xerox Lions
Luzuko Vulindlu – Sharks
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
Januarie and Chilliboy shouldn't be there. And Carstens over du Dr. Plessis?

No real FB is crazy, as is the non-selection of Brussouw.
Agree with pretty much everything there. Haven't seen much of Brussouw given that the Cheetahs' matches were decided before kick-off, but either Schalk or Juan Smith seem dispensable.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Haha, fair point. Quality missed try on Saturday. Didn't watch the semi but apparently Delport did a decent job there so could be a future alternatie at 13?
JP Nel is apparently finished with the franchise after his ban ended his chance of playing in the final (and semi). His going back to Japan. But Delport was very good against the Saders.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Agree with pretty much everything there. Haven't seen much of Brussouw given that the Cheetahs' matches were decided before kick-off, but either Schalk or Juan Smith seem dispensable.
Smith should stay but Burger has been cack all Super14 after his haircut. Luke Watson was the Stormers stand out loose forward.

Dinosaur can play loose, so there is cover if Burger isn't at the races.

Brussouw has got all the right stats, he made the most tackles, most meters gained, most line breaks, most turnovers forced, most tackle breaks and most turnover tackles (out of any SA flanker in 14, and had better than Richie McCaw in the 2008 season).

Jacobs selection is also poor considering he needs shoulder surgery and was carrying it for the latter part of the Super14.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Surprised that Kirchner didn't at least make the squad, but even more surprised that both he and Terblanche were omitted yet Earl Rose makes the cut?? They may well play JP Pietersen at fullback and Habana and Nokwe on the wings after all.

Wouldn't have predicted Ralepelle making the squad, and felt that Brussouw deserves to be in the squad, but other than that and the strange choice over fullbacks, a reasonably predictable Springboks line-up IMO.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Surprised that Kirchner didn't at least make the squad, but even more surprised that both he and Terblanche were omitted yet Earl Rose makes the cut?? They may well play JP Pietersen at fullback and Habana and Nokwe on the wings after all.

Wouldn't have predicted Ralepelle making the squad, and felt that Brussouw deserves to be in the squad, but other than that and the strange choice over fullbacks, a reasonably predictable Springboks line-up IMO.
General consensus (well according to the coach's press conference) is that JP is likely to play FB, as he can run the ball from the back and fits in with De Villier's 'total rubgy' mantra. But that could change as the captain and vice, Victor Matfield have a lot of say, more than in any other era and both players feel a more conservative approach is what you need to beat the Lions.

Rationale put forward to Brussouw's omission is that on dry/flat conditions, Dinosaur's power would be needed more. Heinrich is likely to come into the equation during the tri away games.

Chiliboy can count himself lucky, as can Bismarck in all honesty, his throwing isn't that reliable and the inform hooker in South Africa is Derick Kuun of the Bulls.
 
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