Strength of First Class Competitions

[chaminda_00]

Pakistan does have a decent domestic competition TBH, but isn't the best league in the world, not by a long shot. IMO its probably about No5, but not that far way off South Africa and India which i would have at three and four. Australia is still number one, but standard of the comp has dropped a lot recently and some English D1 county sides would know give some Australia state sides a good run for their money. My rating would be:

1. Australia
2. England
3. South Africa
4. India
5. Pakistan
6. New Zealand
7. West Indies
8. Sri Lanka
9. Bangladhesh

 

[Tom Halsey]

IMO, Australia are top and past that I think it's all much of a muchness.

 

[Salamuddin]

In that case, why not use that on someone already so much better than him (as you're alluding to being around in the Pakistani domestic scene?)

Your the one who brougfht Sami up, Marc not me
I didn't mention any names specificallly on the Pakistani side now did I ??

And who says Woolmer isn't working on less expereinced fast bowlers ....he is already interacting with the likes of Najaf, Irshad and Riaz Afridi...

 

[Salamuddin]

Good to see you inherited the uniquely New South Welshman trait of extrapolating from limited knowledge of where you are geographically to assume that where you are is the best in the world.

Well I have been to India and Bangladesh, England and New Zealand -- so I hacve some idea of the levels in other countries.

And yes, I did watch cricket at your beloved Adelaide Oval

 

[Pratters]

Also I should add that I think they have too many first class teams which I think India also suffer with in the Ranji trophy but a least the Indians make up for to some extent with the Duleep trophy.

The Duleep Trophy has teams made of players who have played with each other very little. It means poor team spirit and co-ordination.

Its not as good as it looks on paper.

The Ranji trophy is more valuable and has more pride to it. The finals or crucial matches of a Ranji trophy tournament are far more intense than Duleep trophy games.

 

[Pratters]

5) Country matches are seen as carnival affairs - they lack the fire, the intensity and the passion atht I've seen say in Pura Cup or Duleep trophy games.

Read last post.

 

[Gajanayake]

The Duleep Trophy has teams made of players who have played with each other very little. It means poor team spirit and co-ordination.

Its not as good as it looks on paper.

The Ranji trophy is more valuable and has more pride to it. The finals or crucial matches of a Ranji trophy tournament are far more intense than Duleep trophy games.

Gotta disagree with you there Pratyush.
I've watched both Duleep and Ranji first division games over the last couple of years and the Duleep trophy is certainly competetitive and intense.
Remember that the Duleep trophy is effectively the best 70 players in India (assuming each zonal squad has 14 players) and the National selectors watch these games closely.
Even though players are not playing for their states, the stakes are pretty high - some good performances there will certainly cast you in a favourable light among the selectors.

 

[Gajanayake]

It's very difficult to compare isn't it ? I mean how many people on this board have actually seen domestic matches in more than country.

I have seen Sri Lankan cricket and Indian cricket and I know the latter is much stronger. I also believe Indian cricket is much,much more competitive than what it was say 5-10 years ago.

But as to how Indian cricket compares with say CC or Pura Cup or State Shield, I have little idea.
UNless someone watches a hell of a lot matches in each league or better still, plays in some of them, aren't we all kinda stabbing in the dark ?

 

[Pratters]

Gotta disagree with you there Pratyush.
I've watched both Duleep and Ranji first division games over the last couple of years and the Duleep trophy is certainly competetitive and intense.
Remember that the Duleep trophy is effectively the best 70 players in India (assuming each zonal squad has 14 players) and the National selectors watch these games closely.
Even though players are not playing for their states, the stakes are pretty high - some good performances there will certainly cast you in a favourable light among the selectors.

Earlier with the zonal system in Ranji Trophy, the case you are speaking of was very much there.

A Bengal for example was assured of qualifying for the next round from the east zone having to play sides like Tripura, Assam etc. So the initial competition lacked intensity.

With the Group stages and two tires, the intensity is far more in each level.

Also, the team aspect and pride I have spoken of in the earlier post existing in the Ranji game.

If you cannot understand still how the Ranji Trophy is more intense and has more at stake in terms of the team and this the battles are more hardly fought - take a look at Australia vs South Africa now compared to Australia vs Rest of the World.

The players playing for themselves more in the Duleep Trophy also leads to a general pointlessness about the matches. Its a personal battle more than a team battle more often than not. The teams formed are good but performing in a crucial duleep trophy match versus performing in the Ranji semi final , final or crucial tire 1 match up - performing in the crucial Ranji match would be far more a matter of importance.

Its a matter of time before the Ranji Trophy regains some of its past glory with the better structuring of the tournament.

 

[greg]

England have I think the most overrated domestic setup in the world for the follwing reasons:
1) There is a 'sameness' in the pitches....unlike some other countries.

Well this is nonsense IMO.

2) Too much reliance is placed on foreign imports rather than home gorwn talent.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this point. If anything the County Championship has had a dramatic improvement in quality since the restrictions on foreigners were effectively lifted. What the appropriate balance of homegrown/foreign is for the long term health of the English team is a valid question but I don't think this is particularly relevant to the topic at hand.

3) There is poor coordination between the counties to ensure that a positive, attacking style of cricket is played --- other countries have first class conclaves where consistency in coaching methods/playing styles is pursued towrads the end of producinbg stronger domestic competetion and a more competetive national team. In England it seems to be a general case of every county for itself and balls to England

This is changing rapidly. Anyway it all depends on what you see the purpose of the domestic competition as being (again not sure it is totally relevant to the original topic).

4) I felt several county teams were lacking in general fitness - the fielding stanadard were poor and the levels of athleticism displayed could have been muich better.

Is the standard of fielding really that high in subcontinental competitions? (I have no idea, genuine question. Historically it would be surprising if that was the case - I believe it was argued that the outfields often worked against it).

5) Country matches are seen as carnival affairs - they lack the fire, the intensity and the passion atht I've seen say in Pura Cup or Duleep trophy games.

One point that should be made is that many players have commented that intensity has increased dramatically in recent years. Mention should really be made of the 2 division structure which has changed things a lot.

 

[Gajanayake]

Is the standard of fielding really that high in subcontinental competitions? (I have no idea, genuine question. Historically it would be surprising if that was the case - I believe it was argued that the outfields often worked against it).

.

Greg, historically fielding and fitness certainly have been pretty poor among Indian domestic sides. BUt there has been a marked improvement since 2000 - alot of the players in Indian domestic teams these days have come thru either the National or Zonal academies where they are exposed to the ideas of proper fitness, good fielding etc.
Furthermore, the BCCI actually made it mandatory for Indian first class teams to have a full time physicall trainer and physio in 2000.

Prior to this, it may seem unbelievable to some, Indian sides did not have a proper fitness trainer or a physio as such. If they were luck they had a team doctor who had done a course in sports medicine while completing his/her MBBS.

 

[marc71178]

in my opinion I'd have to say that the English domestic comp would be quite good. I mean their national sides resurrection surely has to reflect the effectiveness of the 2 division competition.

I think it more reflects central contracts and consistency of selection.

 

[Buddhmaster]

This Salamuddin dude is taking over. I'm not liking it

 

[honestbharani]

This Salamuddin dude is taking over. I'm not liking it

So how will you react if Pakistan takes over from Australia at the top of the cricketing world?

 

[Buddhmaster]

So how will you react if Pakistan takes over from Australia at the top of the cricketing world?

Can't react if i'm dead

 

[honestbharani]

I don't want that to happen any time soon. But I do want Aussie dominance to end next week, if possible.

 

[Buddhmaster]

I don't want that to happen any time soon. But I do want Aussie dominance to end next week, if possible.

Bit harsh mate, back off

 

[chris.hinton]

To the bloke who think that Pakistan domestic comp is better then Englands/Aussies and ASouth Africans comp is talking rubbish

there are a lot of poor players in Pakitan playing in them who come over to our club sides and do nothing


Anyway I think the Aussies have the best and we have the second and it a tie between india and South Africa and New Zealand

about the a sides debate England A are quite Strong

England: Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Bell, Pietersen, Flintoff, G Jones, Giles, S Jones, Harminson, Hoggard

England A: Cook, Newman, Butcher, Solanki, Shah, Collingwood, S.Davies, Swann, Plunkett, Sidebottom, Anderson

Who have i missed out

 

[Buddhmaster]

Haha, another classic from the hintonator

 

[chris.hinton]

yep it is and who are you mate