Sourav Ganguly VS MS Dhoni - Who was a better captain?

[iPankajKhanna]

Hi All,

Would like your perspective on the captaincy skills on Sourav Ganguly and MS Dhoni - considering strategy, planning, tactics, selection, leadership, maneuvering, and other parameters on which a captain must be judged?

What were the strengths and weaknesses of each of them?

Thanks

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'd have Ganguly all day long.

Better tactically for me and always gave the impression he'd walk over hot coals to beat you.

Didn't seem to give a monkey's what the oppo thought of him either, which can be a virtue too.

I'd guess MS was maybe more of a leader by example than a shooter and possibly more of a mate to his team, but that can be a mixed blessing when it comes to throwing a few ****s into then when the occasion merits it.

 

[honestbharani]

Its hard to compare coz they both faced so many different challenges. But Sourav delivered us from one of the worst lows of Indian cricket of all time, the fixing saga, and made the game (and the team) watchable and followable again. For that sentimental reason, Dada gets my vote.

As pure captains, Sourav seemed to have a great eye for talent but so did MSD. Sourav was more aggressive in terms of tactics but I have also seen some of the most defensive moves from him as captain but MSD created possibly the best Indian test side I have seen 2008-2011 by coaxing a mixture of youth and experience, stars and glamboys etc. He could bring together a team like no one before could IMO in Indian cricket. So they are neck and neck with each very distinct strengths.

tl;dr: Objectively cant seperate. Emotionally, Dada over MSD.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Think Ganguly was probably better but only marginally as I think Dhoni had a better bowling line up to go with the great batting so could achieve more and did so. If Ganguly had the same weapons I think he'd have done the same.

 

[Tom Flint]

It would have been close for me until the last few years, I know he wasn't captain but those run chases in knockout games where he seemed to give up were hard to watch.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Natwest Trophy final...2002.
Ganguly to the world!

 

[subshakerz]

Ganguly in tests and Dhoni in limited overs.

I judge captains primarily by how they improve on what they start with, and the results they achieve relative to the resources they have.

Ganguly in test cricket was not exceptionally brilliant tactically, but he gave the team a backbone and aggression that helped them win dramatically improve their record overseas. On top of that, he built the core of a test team that served India for a decade.

Dhoni's test captaincy can be split into two periods, from 2009 to 2011 when he was unbeaten at home, won in NZ and WI and drew in SA. At that point, he was a contender for the subcontinent's greatest captain ever. But in hindsight it is clear he was building on the hard work done by Ganguly, Dravid and Kumble previously. But from 2011 to 2014 his defensive instincts became clear and he made it a tendency to lose faith early on in his bowlers, fail to take initiative and let winning moments slip regularly. This article sums this up well: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21555781/defensive-dhoni-hurts-india-again

In ODIs and T20s though, Dhoni to me is the greatest captain of them all, winning all the major trophies, beating Australia in a tri-series away, all with a team with limited bowling resources. He always seemed ahead of the game and was one of those captains I felt who basically 'figured out' the format.

Dhoni is a strange one, his 'keep it cool' instincts work so well for him in ODIs and totally against him in tests.

 

[subshakerz]

Its hard to compare coz they both faced so many different challenges. But Sourav delivered us from one of the worst lows of Indian cricket of all time, the fixing saga, and made the game (and the team) watchable and followable again. For that sentimental reason, Dada gets my vote.

As pure captains, Sourav seemed to have a great eye for talent but so did MSD. Sourav was more aggressive in terms of tactics but I have also seen some of the most defensive moves from him as captain but MSD created possibly the best Indian test side I have seen 2008-2011 by coaxing a mixture of youth and experience, stars and glamboys etc. He could bring together a team like no one before could IMO in Indian cricket. So they are neck and neck with each very distinct strengths.

tl;dr: Objectively cant seperate. Emotionally, Dada over MSD.

I dont think Dhoni deserves complete credit for that. It belongs to Dravid who starting the winning team formula in 2006 by winning a test in SA and winning in England.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah but things were really bad within the side around 2007 WC and Kumble takes some credit for bringing back some unity in the side, but I definitely feel MSD deserves most of the credit for keeping that mix going and ensuring almost all of them contributed and/or played to potential. Heck he even got Sreesanth to go better at his most unhinged.

 

[vcs]

My opinion on this is pretty unpopular.. but as far as Test captaincy goes I think Kohli > Sourav > MSD
ODI captaincy - MSD > Kohli > Sourav

 

[honestbharani]

I won't really agree with it but I don't think it is THAT unpopular?

 

[srbhkshk]

My opinion on this is pretty unpopular.. but as far as Test captaincy goes I think Kohli > Sourav > MSD
ODI captaincy - MSD > Kohli > Sourav

Why do you rate Kohli as better than Sourav in ODIs ? Ganguly managed a world cup final with half the bowling resources Kohli had. He had a shared CT too.

 

[vcs]

Why do you rate Kohli as better than Sourav in ODIs ? Ganguly managed a world cup final with half the bowling resources Kohli had. He had a shared CT too.

Depends on how highly you value ICC knockouts, doesn't it? India have won bilaterals away everywhere except England under Kohli which is a good achievement. Of course, he has a stronger team at his disposal, arguably, better bowlers, ATG opener in Rohit etc. It's subjective.

Highs under Ganguly were excellent - Natwest Trophy, the Test series win against Australia (which I rate as arguably India's greatest cricketing achievement), draw in Australia/England, win in Pakistan, WC final, CT etc. There were also significant lows that get brushed away though. Test series losses in WI/SL/NZ/Zimbabwe (or was that a draw, not sure), didn't beat NZ at home, acrimonious fallout with the coaching staff etc.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah but things were really bad within the side around 2007 WC and Kumble takes some credit for bringing back some unity in the side, but I definitely feel MSD deserves most of the credit for keeping that mix going and ensuring almost all of them contributed and/or played to potential. Heck he even got Sreesanth to go better at his most unhinged.

Yeah but that proves my point. Most great captains have an active role in building the makeup of team that performs, whereas Dhoni had it served it him readymade.

 

[subshakerz]

Dont see how Kohli can be rated so highly after his team after underperformed away under his captaincy.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. nothing was really ready made. It was a combustible situation but he managed it beautifully. I guess there is no way to know for sure coz he was there but simply from all the comments from these players once they retired, its obvious it was a pretty divided dressing room and he kept them united. You can't take something ike that this lightly IMO.

 

[vcs]

NZ was bad, definitely. Apart from that, when they lost in England and SA, they competed well and lost by fine margins. Of course, you could blame the skipper for that.

I dunno, guess I've got used to seeing India be much worse away so I probably have low standards.

 

[Spark]

Dont see how Kohli can be rated so highly after his team after underperformed away under his captaincy.

I mean, there's underperformed, and then there's underperformed. I don't think his team have done that badly, and especially not compared to the five-alarm garbage fire that was 8-0 in 2011/12. Even in 2014/15 down here where they were pretty soundly beaten, they were competitive in every game, which is a substantial improvement over the previous effort. The recent NZ tour probably is the most disappointing showing they've put up overseas that I can recall under Kohli's tenure, that was a real misfire.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean, there's underperformed, and then there's underperformed. I don't think his team have done that badly, and especially not compared to the five-alarm garbage fire that was 8-0 in 2011/12. Even in 2014/15 down here where they were pretty soundly beaten, they were competitive in every game, which is a substantial improvement over the previous effort. The recent NZ tour probably is the most disappointing showing they've put up overseas that I can recall under Kohli's tenure, that was a real misfire.

I dont see how 'being competitive' means that much. India have been mostly competitive in away series since 2002 and India were the no.1 ranked team in the world when they toured in 2018.

I think Kohli's loss in SA was understandable as they were somewhat evenly matched teams, but England loss was truly disappointing. We may not remember but India entered that series as heavy favorites and England were in poor form, and India end up with a worse scoreline than the previous tour. If SA under Graeme Smith had lost that way to England it wouldnt have been as acceptable.

 

[srbhkshk]

I dont see how 'being competitive' means that much. India have been mostly competitive in away series since 2002 and India were the no.1 ranked team in the world when they toured in 2018.

I think Kohli's loss in SA was understandable as they were somewhat evenly matched teams, but England loss was truly disappointing. We may not remember but India entered that series as heavy favorites and England were in poor form, and India end up with a worse scoreline than the previous tour. If SA under Graeme Smith had lost that way to England it wouldnt have been as acceptable.

Dude, it's probably the case that time has helped you forget the 11-12 series, they were embarrassing , tragic , heartbreaking and basically everything that an Indian fan would not want cricket to be like, The embarrassment Kohli has suffered is not even close in any way.