Ravindra Jadeja vs Anil Kumble

[subshakerz]

The counter argument to that, which I keep bringing up, is that those who watched plenty of both generally rate Jadeja the better cricketer. This is largely a crowd brought up on some level of 90s nostalgia. That should tell you something…
Kumble just wasn’t of the requisite level where his bowling is that much better than the overall Jadeja package, especially if you have a helpful pace attack (which even the Indian ATG team now does).

Easy. They are getting caught up in the moment since Jadeja is on a hot run this year whereas Kumble is yesterday's news. How many times have we seen a form player get rated ahead of other greats only for him to dip later?

Also frankly many of these posters take Jadeja's figures at face value in an unreflective way.

 

[Xix2565]

Players with sufficiently long careers?

You don't get why 67 tests isn't that much by modern standards? Heck it's much less than even the 80s all-rounders.

That's your bar, not mine buddy. Longevity overall isn't as much of a factor for me in such cases, be it matches or years.

 

[Xix2565]

Easy. They are getting caught up in the moment since Jadeja is on a hot run this year whereas Kumble is yesterday's news. How many times have we seen a form player get rated ahead of other greats only for him to dip later?

Also frankly many of these posters take Jadeja's figures at face value in an unreflective way.

Extremely rich from you though, you've never shown any capability to reflect and assess things here for a good while lol.

 

[honestbharani]

then that is indeed a stupid answer.

Nah, it is stupid to think it is not the answer in a team game.

 

[Xix2565]

I really don't get why Jadeja being an allrounder is not even up for consideration for people here, Kumble's bowling presence is nowhere close to being so far ahead that the strengths of having an allrounder who supplements both the bowling attack and the batting lineup is rendered meaningless. That doesn't make Kumble mediocre, just that he's not as good overall. It's not like India has had loads of people like Jadeja before in their history.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah, it is stupid to think it is not the answer in a team game.

Yes Brian Lara was a garbage cricketer, glad you agree

 

[honestbharani]

Yes Brian Lara was a garbage cricketer, glad you agree

nah, he has enough wins against ATG sides.

 

[Prince EWS]

nah, he has enough wins against ATG sides.

Hahaha you've ****ing lost the plot with this one.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If someone asks you what someone accomplished and your answer is 'the team he was playing in won matches', then that is indeed a stupid answer.

The correct response to this is to call it for being ****ing stupid, not to then say it also applies to other players, and continue on with the absolutely nonsense merit. OS is right.

Tbf in addition to this, my actual point was that Kumble did win India plenty of matches at home too. Results were more mixed in the 2000s, but there's other reasons for that :flatter pitches, some extremely strong Aus/SA teams, and the WTC not existing yet which made teams prioritize series wins much more than individual match wins, etc.

Jadeja's a better cricketer anyway though. The WPM argument for Kumble away from home is weak af. He played in a team with terrible pace bowlers and he was obviously going to take plenty of wickets even when he wasn't bowling well through sheer volume of overs. No bowler in India's current bowling attack can match that WPM because they literally always play 5 bowlers.

 

[CricAddict]

Easy. They are getting caught up in the moment since Jadeja is on a hot run this year whereas Kumble is yesterday's news. How many times have we seen a form player get rated ahead of other greats only for him to dip later?

Also frankly many of these posters take Jadeja's figures at face value in an unreflective way.

This does include you. You are taking Jadeja's SENA figures at face value in an unreflective way.

 

[subshakerz]

This does include you. You are taking Jadeja's SENA figures at face value in an unreflective way.

Not really. I think he is underrated as a bat in SENA. Just needs to play more.

 

[subshakerz]

Tbf in addition to this, my actual point was that Kumble did win India plenty of matches at home too. Results were more mixed in the 2000s, but there's other reasons for that :flatter pitches, some extremely strong Aus/SA teams, and the WTC not existing yet which made teams prioritize series wins much more than individual match wins, etc.

Shh they don't want this context, they just want to be impressed by Jadeja's home averages.

I really don't get why Jadeja being an allrounder is not even up for consideration for people here, Kumble's bowling presence is nowhere close to being so far ahead that the strengths of having an allrounder who supplements both the bowling attack and the batting lineup is rendered meaningless. That doesn't make Kumble mediocre, just that he's not as good overall. It's not like India has had loads of people like Jadeja before in their history.

Kumble is acknowledged as a great bowler pretty much the world over, just not an ATG.

Is Jadeja a great bowler? Outside of stat nerds here, pretty much the answer of world cricket is no. You want to know why? Because he is seen as a home basher whose ability is severely restricted outside of select conditions. And unlike Ashwin who has a sheer volume of wickets to make his home bashing case, Jadeja hasn't even played nearly as much to be in that conversation.

You can't escape simple facts. You are comparing a bowler with over 600 wickets with one with less than 300. Even if you think they are equally effective, the first will simply be rated a level higher by the entire world by virtue of sheer wicket tally and proving himself over a longer period.

My advice? Just be patient and less Jadeja play another 2-3 to solidify his case. Don't jump the gun because Jadeja is the flavor of the month on CW.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Shh they don't want this context, they just want to be impressed by Jadeja's home averages.

But that same argument has to give way somewhere - then Jadeja is a 25 bowling/55 averaging batsman at home in the 00s, ergo Kumble with the ball but a beast with the bat.
Can’t have Jadeja - averaging 45 or more on difficult tracks home and abroad as a bat - not be rated as the batsman he should be either.

 

[honestbharani]

Hahaha you've ****ing lost the plot with this one.

Its what OS' post deserved though.

In all seriousness, I think its silly to think how much did you help your team win is not an important metric when judging performances in a team game.

On the topic of Kumble Vs Jadeja, I do think Jaddu is the better cricketer but the arguments both sides have presented have bordered on the idiotic quite a bit.

 

[honestbharani]

This does include you. You are taking Jadeja's SENA figures at face value in an unreflective way.

You are talking as if he is not doing it on purpose.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Really thought this would have been a close poll. It’ll be interesting to see how high jadeja is rated once he’s retired.

 

[subshakerz]

But that same argument has to give way somewhere - then Jadeja is a 25 bowling/55 averaging batsman at home in the 00s, ergo Kumble with the ball but a beast with the bat.
Can’t have Jadeja - averaging 45 or more on difficult tracks home and abroad as a bat - not be rated as the batsman he should be either.

Jadeja is averaging 39 in India right now so you are dreaming if you think he averages 55 in the 2000s. At best, Jadeja would be Dhoni-level at home.

 

[Coronis]

Nah, it is stupid to think it is not the answer in a team game.

Klay > Lillard

What did Lillard ever do to win?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Jadeja is averaging 39 in India right now so you are dreaming if you think he averages 55 in the 2000s. At best, Jadeja would be Dhoni-level at home.

He’s averaging 45 or something since when it apparently became minefields to bat on, and since his batting actually became good/more than a meme. His early years he was more Ashwin like with the bat.

52 since 2018…

 

[subshakerz]

He’s averaging 45 or something since when it apparently became minefields to bat on, and since his batting actually became good/more than a meme. His early years he was more Ashwin like with the bat.

52 since 2018…

So Jadeja averages 55 in an entire decade based on 4-5 years of good form while ignoring the earlier 4-5 years when he wasn't in good form. Got it.