MasterBlaster24
U19 12th Man
Better bowler in tests?
-
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Ravichandran Ashwin vs Alec Bedser
- Thread starter MasterBlaster24
- Start date
DrWolverine
International Vice-Captain
Alec Bedser also has a not so impressive away record.
But he had a proper ATG series in away conditions. Not sure if Ashwin ever had one, at least against proper competition.
But he had a proper ATG series in away conditions. Not sure if Ashwin ever had one, at least against proper competition.
Johan
International Coach
I read through SJS's Fast bowlers thread, Wonderful, Wonderful thread and I recommend any member of this site or anyone who even happens to frequent the site without an account, to read through it – here. Anyway, here are some descriptions I could find of Bedser's bowling style by Trevor Bailey and Fred Trueman, they both describe Bedser as one of the greats and say this about his bowling style.
Trevor Bailey
Alec Bedser was the finest post war fast-medium bowler. He ranks alongside the immortals of other eras, possibly just ahead of Maurice Tate and just behind Sydney Barnes. He stood, both figuratively and literally, above all others of his breed
Alec surged up the wicket, not especially quickly, but so strongly that it would have taken an anti-tank gun to stop him reaching his classical action.... a model for any young bowler. Everything was correct, arms, shoulders, body and feet, with his right foot coming down behind and parallel to the bowling crease and his left foot pointing to fine leg before he swiveled as he released the ball. Although these characteristics suggested an away-swinger, curiously Alec's stock delivery was the in-swinger, which dipped in very late and brought him numerous victims, either 'bowled through the gate' as they tried to drive him through the covers or caught at backward short leg usually off an inside edge.
Although Alec was not fast, about Botham's pace, he did come of the pitch quicker than one expected because of his fine body action and perfect timing. Consequently a batsman after a long innings against him would have a bruised right hand as a result of the constant jarring from the bat handle after the ball hit the blade.
He wanted the wicket keeper standing up to the stumps, not back as even medium pacers do today, and this meant that he never had to strain for extra pace. It also provided with an extra aiming mark and hemmed in the batman. He was fortunate in having the assistance of two high quality keepers in Evans for England and McIntyre for Surrey. One of the great sights of cricket was to see one of them taking Alec on a pitch that was giving some help, with the ball cutting off the seam and frequently bouncing shoulder high.
Alec maintained a full length, especially with the new ball and attacked the stumps, so forcing the batsman to play almost every delivery. Pinning him down accurately, he he worried him with movement both in the air and off the seam and occasionally deceived him with a cleverly disguised slower ball that was seldom picked until it had been released.
I once put my hand on Alec's palm to compare the size of our fingers. Mine just reached the first joint of his! This was one reason why he was able to cut and spin his famous leg-cutter so much that in certain conditions he was close to being unplayable.
What made Alec's leg-cutter so much more effective than that of any other bowler was the pace and the accuracy with which he bowled it, combined with the fact that it would occasionally bite and turn even on a plumb wicket.
Fred Trueman
He was the greatest fast-medium bowler of my era and he will certainly go down as one of the game's immortals. His record of 236 wickets becomes far more remarkable when you consider the opposition he bowled against and that for much of his career their was no class support at the other end.
Alec was one of the few bowlers I knew who had a complete side-on action and yet bowled the in-swinger, making the ball dip in very late, go a long way and bounce. With Len Hutton he worked out a method of dismissing Don Bradman. He would place Len just behind square on the leg side and he trapped the Don there on several occasions. Because he knew how to bowl to his field, you could stand to him very close without being in danger, for his aim was to make the batsman play every ball.
In addition to pushing the ball away from the bat (out-swing), as contrast to his in-swing, he mastered probably the best leg cuttter of all time.
You will hear the Australians call a certain delivery a leg-cutter, which I would call a seamer. The leg-cutter that Alec bowled was different. His hand was pulled across the seam, and with the aid of the fingers it was really a very fast leg break, Alec was helped by having enormous hands and fingers which were so large that when he placed the ball inside his fingers, it could not be seen.
Bowling his leg-cutters on a rain affected wicket or a dusty one, he could be virtually unplayable. The ball would dip into the batsman at a very lively fast-medium, and immediately after it had pitched it would cut back sharply towards the off. No batsman in the world really had an answer to the delivery which starts outside the off stump, pithces on leg stump, and hits the top of the off.
Trevor Bailey
Alec Bedser was the finest post war fast-medium bowler. He ranks alongside the immortals of other eras, possibly just ahead of Maurice Tate and just behind Sydney Barnes. He stood, both figuratively and literally, above all others of his breed
Alec surged up the wicket, not especially quickly, but so strongly that it would have taken an anti-tank gun to stop him reaching his classical action.... a model for any young bowler. Everything was correct, arms, shoulders, body and feet, with his right foot coming down behind and parallel to the bowling crease and his left foot pointing to fine leg before he swiveled as he released the ball. Although these characteristics suggested an away-swinger, curiously Alec's stock delivery was the in-swinger, which dipped in very late and brought him numerous victims, either 'bowled through the gate' as they tried to drive him through the covers or caught at backward short leg usually off an inside edge.
Although Alec was not fast, about Botham's pace, he did come of the pitch quicker than one expected because of his fine body action and perfect timing. Consequently a batsman after a long innings against him would have a bruised right hand as a result of the constant jarring from the bat handle after the ball hit the blade.
He wanted the wicket keeper standing up to the stumps, not back as even medium pacers do today, and this meant that he never had to strain for extra pace. It also provided with an extra aiming mark and hemmed in the batman. He was fortunate in having the assistance of two high quality keepers in Evans for England and McIntyre for Surrey. One of the great sights of cricket was to see one of them taking Alec on a pitch that was giving some help, with the ball cutting off the seam and frequently bouncing shoulder high.
Alec maintained a full length, especially with the new ball and attacked the stumps, so forcing the batsman to play almost every delivery. Pinning him down accurately, he he worried him with movement both in the air and off the seam and occasionally deceived him with a cleverly disguised slower ball that was seldom picked until it had been released.
I once put my hand on Alec's palm to compare the size of our fingers. Mine just reached the first joint of his! This was one reason why he was able to cut and spin his famous leg-cutter so much that in certain conditions he was close to being unplayable.
What made Alec's leg-cutter so much more effective than that of any other bowler was the pace and the accuracy with which he bowled it, combined with the fact that it would occasionally bite and turn even on a plumb wicket.
Fred Trueman
He was the greatest fast-medium bowler of my era and he will certainly go down as one of the game's immortals. His record of 236 wickets becomes far more remarkable when you consider the opposition he bowled against and that for much of his career their was no class support at the other end.
Alec was one of the few bowlers I knew who had a complete side-on action and yet bowled the in-swinger, making the ball dip in very late, go a long way and bounce. With Len Hutton he worked out a method of dismissing Don Bradman. He would place Len just behind square on the leg side and he trapped the Don there on several occasions. Because he knew how to bowl to his field, you could stand to him very close without being in danger, for his aim was to make the batsman play every ball.
In addition to pushing the ball away from the bat (out-swing), as contrast to his in-swing, he mastered probably the best leg cuttter of all time.
You will hear the Australians call a certain delivery a leg-cutter, which I would call a seamer. The leg-cutter that Alec bowled was different. His hand was pulled across the seam, and with the aid of the fingers it was really a very fast leg break, Alec was helped by having enormous hands and fingers which were so large that when he placed the ball inside his fingers, it could not be seen.
Bowling his leg-cutters on a rain affected wicket or a dusty one, he could be virtually unplayable. The ball would dip into the batsman at a very lively fast-medium, and immediately after it had pitched it would cut back sharply towards the off. No batsman in the world really had an answer to the delivery which starts outside the off stump, pithces on leg stump, and hits the top of the off.
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sayon basak
Cricketer Of The Year
Lol, you cannot say that when your whole presence here is built upon doing exactly that.
Line and Length
International Coach
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Two hometrack bullies, one a pacer, one a spinner.
iirc Bedser took a lot more wickets in the bowling friendly portion of his career, whilst the inverse is true for Ashwin. Bedser did have one great overseas tour of Australia, but iirc that was one of the most bowling friendly series ever. Of the top 7 wicket takers, 5 had sub 20 averages, all of them below 23.
Line and Length
International Coach
Their test averages are only 0.94 apart. Similarly, they both average better on home tracks (21.56 and 21.44)
Bedser held the world record for number of Test wickets taken despite not playing Tests until in his mid 20s due to WWII.
Looking at their first class careers, Bedser is well ahead having taken 1924 fc wickets @ 20.41 to Ashwin's 779 @ 24.96.
Both warrant credit for fine careers and if you can't see how Bedser compares positively with Ashwin, then you need to do a little research.
Calling a player an " overrated hack" when they have similar stats to Ashwin means you should also classify Ashwin as an "overrated hack".
Please note, there is no need to include a player's nationality when making comparisons. It leaves you wide open to suggestions your posts are racist.
I don't rate him that highly, and to me nostalgia/reverence is boosting his reputation in a way that's incomprehensible to me. Him being English isn't an issue here and I would like it if people weren't indulging in the same sort of **** they want to ding me for.
Johan
International Coach
Get a grip on reality, nobody would care if you said Bedser was an overrated hack, I'm sure most would find it amusing and hypocritical but it'd be acceptable regardless. Including his nationality in an aggressive and negative comment to him, is the part people rightfully aren't fans of.
He's part of the bunch of older players that gets wanked by nostalgia to high heaven. Get over yourself please.
Johan
International Coach
Yeah I'm sure the generation of Indian fans who grew up with Ashwin have no nostalgia for Ashwin. Get over yourself lad, and grow up, your whinging is irritating.