Ravichandran Ashwin vs Alec Bedser

[Johan]

Indeed, and who mentioned race/nationality first in the thread?

Overrated English hack, gtfo.

oh, right.

 

[Xix2565]

Indeed, and who mentioned race/nationality first in the thread?

oh, right.

Again, race =/= racism. That you want to be unable to understand this or anything that disagrees with your perspective of cricket isn't my issue.

 

[Johan]

Again, race =/= racism. That you want to be unable to understand this or anything that disagrees with your perspective of cricket isn't my issue.

you're welcome to explain why you would bring up Bedser's nationality/race in a negative context that had anything to do with your Cricketing perspective of him.

 

[Xix2565]

you're welcome to explain why you would bring up Bedser's nationality/race in a negative context that had anything to do with your Cricketing perspective of him.

He's an English player and I think he's overrated. At least he's not like Boycott.

 

[Johan]

He's an English player and I think he's overrated. At least he's not like Boycott.

There's no correlation between him being English and him being overrated, that'd be like me finding Ashwin overrated and reffering to him as "overrated Tamil hack", the undertone of the comment would be very clear cut. I'd be blunt, I don't care about you being prejudiced, just find it hilarious how you try to dance around it.

Don't know what would be wrong in being like Boycott the batsman, he was a better Batsman than every batsman bar three from India

 

[Xix2565]

There's no correlation between him being English and him being overrated, that'd be like me finding Ashwin overrated and reffering to him as "overrated Tamil hack", the undertone of the comment would be very clear cut. Don't know what would be wrong in being like Boycott the batsman, he was a better Batsman than every batsman bar three from India

They're descriptors for him, hence they were used. That you would rather discuss imaginary undertones rather than make a case for Bedser is telling. Seems to be your MO to do everything but post about the comp.

Boycott's just more overrated and a domestic abuser. That you subscribe to the former isn't surprising tbh.

 

[Johan]

They're descriptors for him, hence they were used. That you would rather discuss imaginary undertones rather than make a case for Bedser is telling. Seems to be your MO to do everything but post about the comp.

Boycott's just more overrated and a domestic abuser. That you subscribe to the former isn't surprising tbh.

Except unlike you, I posted about this comparison twice, something you've done zero times, your initial comment was just a a method of spewing hatred and you had a freudian slip of bringing race into this. Both of my initial comments are about the Cricketers.

I guess Bedser? both ATGs at home and Bedser has an ATG series where he took 30 wickets in Australia in 9 innings, even if it was pace friendly.

I read through SJS's Fast bowlers thread, Wonderful, Wonderful thread and I recommend any member of this site or anyone who even happens to frequent the site without an account, to read through it – here. Anyway, here are some descriptions I could find of Bedser's bowling style by Trevor Bailey and Fred Trueman, they both describe Bedser as one of the greats and say this about his bowling style.

Trevor Bailey

Alec Bedser was the finest post war fast-medium bowler. He ranks alongside the immortals of other eras, possibly just ahead of Maurice Tate and just behind Sydney Barnes. He stood, both figuratively and literally, above all others of his breed

Alec surged up the wicket, not especially quickly, but so strongly that it would have taken an anti-tank gun to stop him reaching his classical action.... a model for any young bowler. Everything was correct, arms, shoulders, body and feet, with his right foot coming down behind and parallel to the bowling crease and his left foot pointing to fine leg before he swiveled as he released the ball. Although these characteristics suggested an away-swinger, curiously Alec's stock delivery was the in-swinger, which dipped in very late and brought him numerous victims, either 'bowled through the gate' as they tried to drive him through the covers or caught at backward short leg usually off an inside edge.

Although Alec was not fast, about Botham's pace, he did come of the pitch quicker than one expected because of his fine body action and perfect timing. Consequently a batsman after a long innings against him would have a bruised right hand as a result of the constant jarring from the bat handle after the ball hit the blade.

He wanted the wicket keeper standing up to the stumps, not back as even medium pacers do today, and this meant that he never had to strain for extra pace. It also provided with an extra aiming mark and hemmed in the batman. He was fortunate in having the assistance of two high quality keepers in Evans for England and McIntyre for Surrey. One of the great sights of cricket was to see one of them taking Alec on a pitch that was giving some help, with the ball cutting off the seam and frequently bouncing shoulder high.

Alec maintained a full length, especially with the new ball and attacked the stumps, so forcing the batsman to play almost every delivery. Pinning him down accurately, he he worried him with movement both in the air and off the seam and occasionally deceived him with a cleverly disguised slower ball that was seldom picked until it had been released.

I once put my hand on Alec's palm to compare the size of our fingers. Mine just reached the first joint of his! This was one reason why he was able to cut and spin his famous leg-cutter so much that in certain conditions he was close to being unplayable.

What made Alec's leg-cutter so much more effective than that of any other bowler was the pace and the accuracy with which he bowled it, combined with the fact that it would occasionally bite and turn even on a plumb wicket.

Fred Trueman

He was the greatest fast-medium bowler of my era and he will certainly go down as one of the game's immortals. His record of 236 wickets becomes far more remarkable when you consider the opposition he bowled against and that for much of his career their was no class support at the other end.

Alec was one of the few bowlers I knew who had a complete side-on action and yet bowled the in-swinger, making the ball dip in very late, go a long way and bounce. With Len Hutton he worked out a method of dismissing Don Bradman. He would place Len just behind square on the leg side and he trapped the Don there on several occasions. Because he knew how to bowl to his field, you could stand to him very close without being in danger, for his aim was to make the batsman play every ball.

In addition to pushing the ball away from the bat (out-swing), as contrast to his in-swing, he mastered probably the best leg cuttter of all time.

You will hear the Australians call a certain delivery a leg-cutter, which I would call a seamer. The leg-cutter that Alec bowled was different. His hand was pulled across the seam, and with the aid of the fingers it was really a very fast leg break, Alec was helped by having enormous hands and fingers which were so large that when he placed the ball inside his fingers, it could not be seen.

Bowling his leg-cutters on a rain affected wicket or a dusty one, he could be virtually unplayable. The ball would dip into the batsman at a very lively fast-medium, and immediately after it had pitched it would cut back sharply towards the off. No batsman in the world really had an answer to the delivery which starts outside the off stump, pithces on leg stump, and hits the top of the off.

as always, you're projecting your own shortcomings onto me, grow up.

Overrated? No, at no point in history has Boycott been an overrated batsman. His domestic abuse case is very much a he-said she-said. I don't like Boycott the person or appreciate him, as he's prejudiced just like you, you two would be great friends. Regardless, there's a reason I said Boycott the Batsman, Nice try though.

 

[Xix2565]

What hatred? Please stop this dumbass pschoanalysis you get into whenever you see something you hate. It's getting quite old.

He's overrated, deal with it. And still a domestic abuser.

 

[Johan]

It's right in front of us, Bedser being English plays a big part in your dislike of him, it's literally the thing you pointed out in your overly emotional first comment.

I don't get paid by the hour to discipline brats, I'm afraid. If you want to have discussions like a normal person, you'd need to learn how to do so yourself, Hint, it is not by repeating yourself.

 

[Xix2565]

It's right in front of us, Bedser being English plays a big part in your dislike of him, it's literally the thing you pointed out in your overly emotional first comment.

I don't get paid by the hour to discipline brats, I'm afraid. If you want to have discussions like a normal person, you'd need to learn how to do so yourself, Hint, it is not by repeating yourself.

It's not a big part lol. The more irritating thing about Bedser is that he's a pacer who gets the fast bowling love and also played in a less competitive era that people love to overrate.

I tend to have to repeat things to people too thick to understand the first time round. Quite often on here it takes much longer than that.

 

[Johan]

It's not a big part lol. The more irritating thing about Bedser is that he's a pacer who gets the fast bowling love and also played in a less competitive era that people love to overrate.

I tend to have to repeat things to people too thick to understand the first time round. Quite often on here it takes much longer than that.

>less competitive era

lol, just words. Yeah Alec Bedser, who bowled in the 120-130kmph, at his fastest was the same speed as Ian Botham, gets the same love that "fast bowlers" get. Mind you, that even at his time, he was not called fast but called a "medium pacer". Just baffling.

that's just you making an excuse for not being able to discuss further about Boycott as you know nothing of his career or case frankly, just parroting random posters.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's not a big part lol. The more irritating thing about Bedser is that he's a pacer who gets the fast bowling love and also played in a less competitive era that people love to overrate.

I tend to have to repeat things to people too thick to understand the first time round. Quite often on here it takes much longer than that.

So..... it's secondary to Ashwin being Indian??

 

[Line and Length]

@Xix2565 I can accept that you don't rate players from a bygone era, but there is no reason for you to adopt such an offensive tone when referring to members who take an interest in cricket history and the past greats that shaped that history.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@Xix2565 I can accept that you don't rate players from a bygone era, but there is no reason for you to adopt such an offensive tone when referring to members who take an interest in cricket history and the past greats that shaped that history.

+Being a racist in general, whether that was the intent or not.

 

[Johan]

Generally, I don't think a single forum comment can ever define a person or their personality, but not taking accountability and responsibility can and does.

 

[Xix2565]

So..... it's secondary to Ashwin being Indian??

Ashwin being Indian isn't that relevant here. I would say the same thing if we were talking about Philander vs Bedser for example.

@Xix2565 I can accept that you don't rate players from a bygone era, but there is no reason for you to adopt such an offensive tone when referring to members who take an interest in cricket history and the past greats that shaped that history.

There's no reason for them to be so deliberately insulting or spamming word walls with inane strawmen when being rebuffed. Their interests doesn't excuse them anymore than the way I behave.

 

[Johan]

nobody here spammed word walls, or insulted you unncessarily, I don't really think you were insulted anyway just called out for a comment that you objectively should not have made

 

[Line and Length]

It's not a big part lol. The more irritating thing about Bedser is that he's a pacer who gets the fast bowling love and also played in a less competitive era that people love to overrate.

I tend to have to repeat things to people too thick to understand the first time round. Quite often on here it takes much longer than that.

Bradman's post war attitude not competitive? Read "Bradman's War" by Malcolm Knox and you'll find the definitive competitiveness.

 

[Xix2565]

nobody here spammed world walls, or insulted you unncessarily, I don't really think you were insulted anyway just called out for a comment that you objectively should not have made

I'm referring to how you behave in general. That you would pretend like it's all okay for you to behave like **** while jumping on me is baffling. You're barely a tolerable poster on the best of days.

 

[Johan]

I'm referring to how you behave in general. That you would pretend like it's all okay for you to behave like **** while jumping on me is baffling. You're barely a tolerable poster on the best of days.

I'm not the one to jump to insults immediately, You do, at no point did I insult Ashwin in the thread with a prejudiced remark for example. In a debate, I like responding to everything, if it's not convineant for you then that is not my problem, I don't remember @subshakerz complaining. You critiquing my quality as a poster when I contributed to the thread by discussing one of the participants in detail, while you did nothing but make a prejudiced comment, is just another example of how much you lack self awareness.