Playing with soft hands...

[deeps]

nope,in amits books,in order to be any good at all,you have to be indian

 

[Richard]

There are plenty of good ones, who I can't seperate
Lara, Hayden, Ponting, Tendulkar, Trescothick (when on form) Vaughan, Bevan (ODI's)

Trescothick, Vaughan, Ponting? You have to be joking.
Remember the last time we saw Ponting when the ball was turning? I certainly do - he looked all at sea. Not to say nothing can have changed - it may perfectly possibly have done. Just that we have no evidence it has. We shortly will do, with upcoming tours to the toughest countries for batting against spin for Australia (both on which he will be captaining). Ponting is one of the best at cracking slow-bowlers around when the ball isn't turning but when it is and he knows it's dangerous to use his feet or constantly play right back - him in India in 2000\01 was not a pretty sight.
As for Vaughan, come on! Vaughan's not as weak against spin as someone like Stewart, but he was still severely troubled by Muralitharan in Sri Lanka and had problems with Paul Adams on the rare occasion last summer that he managed to stay in long enough to face him. He even lost his wicket to Peterson.
IMO Crawley, Hussain, Ramprakash, Thorpe and Butcher are all better players of spin than Vaughan.
Trescothick, meanwhile, is comparable to Hayden when the ball's turning into him but when it's turning away from him (not something we've seen much of recently, except in Muralitharan's case) he's horrible. He premeditates far too much and sweeps too much, sometimes both.

 

[iamdavid]

As for Vaughan, come on! Vaughan's not as weak against spin as someone like Stewart, but..........

Well he certainly played Warne extremely well in Adelaide last year , his foorwork to him was magificent , played incredibly well against MacGill (obviously much easier due to the one four ball per over) , he used his feet to him wonderfully , MacGill aint the bowler some of us Aussies crack him up to be , but he is still very hard to come down the wicket to , he generally bowls quite a bit flatter & quicker than Warne & spins it more , also generally bowls a wider line all of which , combined with his hopeless control of length make him easier to cut & pull yet much harder to advance to.
Vaughan did it to great affect.

Ramprakash

*recalls Ramps shot to be stumped off Warne at Trent Bridge in 2001*

Hussain

*recalls just how much trouble Warne gave Hussain last summer before he got injured , all the times he attempted to sweep the ball from the wrong length as he had no other way of dealing with him , only to look amazed when he didnt make contact*

 

[Richard]

The Trent Bridge second-innings was an aberration, just a mental block that doesn't really say anything about Ramprakash's ability against spin, just Warne's ability to get into a batsman's head.
You might be a bit young to remember the tour of 1998\99, but Hussain and Ramprakash provided the best classes on playing spin. Hussain has since developed a tendency to over-use the sweep - one of Duncan Fletcher's few faults is his failure to discourage the sweep, especially the pre-meditated dab. Hussain is one who has lost-out through this. Still, fortunately the shot hasn't actually resulted in his dismissal too many times.

 

[marc71178]

he generally bowls quite a bit flatter & quicker than Warne & spins it more

Flat Spin rules!

 

[Tom Halsey]

According to speedo, he actually bowls slower (not disputing you, though:P )

 

[Langeveldt]

An insult to Martyn Ball maybe, but Peterson has made his Province First XI, hasn't he? Surely he must have done to be a national choice...

Yeh, he is a regular for EP i think... He might have the potential to be a good spinner, but he is sooo flat... I dont mind flat bowling, but you have to be able to flight it as well, without it you may as well be bowling slow medium all the time... He is the kind of guy that would make chris hinton want to destroy something...

Contrast that to Bojé, who delivers from higher, with a good loop and revs on the ball, and you see there is a clear gap in ability...

 

[Tom Halsey]

Derek Underwood bowled at near on medium pace, but no-one is disputing the fact that he was a great bowler

 

[Richard]

Derek Underwood bowled at slow-medium, just like Kumara Dharmasena and Anil Kumble.
All of them needed\need sharpy turning pitches to be really effective. In Underwood's early days they were uncovered and so you got rather more turners than you do now.
Personally I don't think Peterson has the potential to be an especially good bowler. He's just an average fingerspinner. He was effective in Bangladesh which shows he's not totally hopeless, but I still think Boje's a bit better.
When's he back, by the way?
But I'd take Adams over both of them any day. A wristspinner and two fingerspinners. Fingerspinners nowadays are only going to be effective in the subcontinent and (maybe) West Indies.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I agree, but Underwood also had mesmeric accuracy, meaning that even on a shirtfront, he was a brilliant bowler. Although, in general, I prefer a flighted bowler (ala Warne/Murali) over a flat one.

 

[Richard]

Warne and Murali flight it AND spin it with their wrists AND they're every bit as accurate as Underwood was.
That's what makes them so special. Wristspin itself isn't an especially complicated art, but as MacGill and others show, the old-style wristspinner who drags it down very often isn't anywhere near as effective as he used to be.
Nowadays, the only decent wristspinners are those in the Grimmett, O'Reilly, Benaud mould. But Abdul Qadir, Warne, Murali and Mushtaq have proved it's not as difficult as was supposed basically throughout the '60s, '70s and most of the '80s.
Can Kaneria continue the line?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Hopefully - Essex have signed him for next year. Also Sri Lanka have a young leggie, Charitha Bandara. He is expensive, but gets wickets. He is supposed to be a real talent. Also India have Amit Mishra, who modelled his action on Shane Warne, and he can give it a good rip

 

[Craig]

I would say Lara is the best player of spin, to play Murali the way he has, he to me is the best. I will be keen to see how Hayden goes against him.

Jonty Rhodes was the best South African player of spin I have ever seen.

 

[marc71178]

I would say Lara is the best player of spin, to play Murali the way he has, he to me is the best. I will be keen to see how Hayden goes against him.

One things for sure, it won't be as negative as England's approach to playing him!!!

 

[Tom Halsey]

Nah, it will just be a slog fest.

 

[Richard]

I would say Lara is the best player of spin, to play Murali the way he has, he to me is the best. I will be keen to see how Hayden goes against him.

Jonty Rhodes was the best South African player of spin I have ever seen.

I reckon Kirsten is a bit better.
And Cronje certainly was. Best player of spin I've ever seen, Hayden included.
Rhodes had his faults, just like Cullinan, Kallis, Boucher, Gibbs, McKenzie and the rest.
Did you ever see Cronje against spin?

 

[Richard]

Nah, it will just be a slog fest.

Try and slog Muralitharan and you'll pay for it sooner rather than later.

 

[Richard]

Hopefully - Essex have signed him for next year. Also Sri Lanka have a young leggie, Charitha Bandara. He is expensive, but gets wickets. He is supposed to be a real talent. Also India have Amit Mishra, who modelled his action on Shane Warne, and he can give it a good rip

Never heard of nor seen Charitha Bandara, but have heard of and seen once or twice Kaushal Lokourachchi, who is presently banned for careless driving but will soon return.
His domestic figures are excellent in both game forms and he had a very good start to his ODI career. Tests are yet to come very well, but he's only played a couple.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I have never seen Bandara. But have heard he is supposed to be the future of leg-spin with Amit Mishra and Kaneria. Leg-spin has good future, which can only be good. Check out his profile on CricInfo-his stats are good for a young leggie, a hard art.

 

[marc71178]

Never heard of nor seen Charitha Bandara, but have heard of and seen once or twice Kaushal Lokourachchi, who is presently banned for careless driving but will soon return.

I believe he's now back in domestic Cricket.