• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Playing with soft hands...

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
But he can't bowl well, this now seems to be most people's opinion. Barring a Sri Lankan abberation from which he benefits tomorrow morning, I'd be perfectly happy for him never to play Test-cricket again, ie ditto Dawson. Get Crofty back in, for crying out loud. And then make Jason Brown third choice.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Yep, too true. For my money, Jason Brown has a lot of potential. He is accurate, has flight, and can turn it considerably
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Have you ever seen Brian Lara bat against Warne, Murali, Peterson :P etc etc.?

No I hadnt... not up until the wanderers test at least.. And I dont like rating people I have never seen play well..

Sachin is like that. Undoutebly a class batsman, but Ive only seen him bat well once..
Whenever he has done well, ive been doing something other than watching him, and whenever ive been watching him, he has done sod all...

After his treatment of Pietersen (although to call him a proper spinner is an insult to the likes of Richard Dawson and Martyn Ball) Ill admit to myself that Lara can play spin rather well! :D
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
An insult to Martyn Ball maybe, but Peterson has made his Province First XI, hasn't he? Surely he must have done to be a national choice...:rolleyes:
Richard Dawson is, quite rightly, not a regular in Yorkshire's Championship XI. I rate Peterson a better bowler than Dawson; Peterson did well against Bangladesh, Batty didn't, Batty is a slightly better bowler than Dawson.
Martyn Ball is a class above all the above, though still nowhere near international class. Probably the fourth-best fingerspinner in the country after Croft, Giles and Brown.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
halsey said:
Yep, too true. For my money, Jason Brown has a lot of potential. He is accurate, has flight, and can turn it considerably
However, I am really worried that people will start to believe that he spins it more than Giles and Croft. He unquestionably spins it more than Batty or Dawson, but he's still only a fingerspinner - I don't really expect him to be any better at the Test grounds against Test opposition than Giles and Croft have been.
The best option is for England not to pick fingerspinners at home, and to pick all three of the aforementioned for tours to the subcontinent and West Indies (whenever the next one is).
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Hmmm, maybe I could keep my whites ready:P I am, after all a wrist-spinner, and even I could bowl better than Batty and Dawson:P
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
You are a valuable commodity.8D
The question is, can you bowl better than Chris Schofield and the mighty Ian Salisbury?
(Not exactly difficult with Sals' last 6 Tests - 2 wickets, both the last of the innings)
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
I dont think England are anywere nere finding a good legspiner.
County cricket and the whole attitude of bowling flat and containing the run's hinders the development of young spinners IMO.

They just wont be picked if they are expensive. Leg Spin bowlers need to be given a bit of lead way as far as economy goes they need to work on spinning flighting and drifting the ball the accuracy can come later.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Yeah, too true.

I have the best bowling average at my club, and my coach says I will be better if I bowl flatter. Load of codswollop
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Precious few bowlers have managed to keep the runs down in county cricket in the last 2 years.
Scoring-rates in the Championship have been alarmingly fast in 2002 and 2003.
Fingerspin is use only at certain grounds, anyway, and so many useless seamers have been picked in the last 2 or 3 years it almost beggars belief.
Anyway, county cricket is not the breeding ground - club cricket is. And I can tell you from personal experience that wristspin is being very actively encouraged in young bowlers ATM. But you can't do anything unless someone with the ability comes along. It's all very well saying "you've got to let them concede runs" but the fact is, you don't develop your skills in the middle, you develop them in the nets. If you can't get the results, ie even if you're taking wickets at 50 balls per wicket, if you're going at 4-an-over no side is going to keep picking you.
You can encourage but you can't create ability. Worldwide how many really good wristspinners have there been recently? Abdul Qadir, Warne, Murali, Mushtaq Ahmed, possibly Danish Kaneria but his recent form has been anything but impressive.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Richard said:
Precious few bowlers have managed to keep the runs down in county cricket in the last 2 years.
Scoring-rates in the Championship have been alarmingly fast in 2002 and 2003.
Fingerspin is use only at certain grounds, anyway, and so many useless seamers have been picked in the last 2 or 3 years it almost beggars belief.
Anyway, county cricket is not the breeding ground - club cricket is. And I can tell you from personal experience that wristspin is being very actively encouraged in young bowlers ATM. But you can't do anything unless someone with the ability comes along. It's all very well saying "you've got to let them concede runs" but the fact is, you don't develop your skills in the middle, you develop them in the nets. If you can't get the results, ie even if you're taking wickets at 50 balls per wicket, if you're going at 4-an-over no side is going to keep picking you.
You can encourage but you can't create ability. Worldwide how many really good wristspinners have there been recently? Abdul Qadir, Warne, Murali, Mushtaq Ahmed, possibly Danish Kaneria but his recent form has been anything but impressive.
Yep, completely agree. I keep being told I have the potential to make it to at least county cricket, but I severely doubt it, because I am one of those expensive-but-get-you-wickets bowlers.
 

iamdavid

International Debutant
When I first saw Schofeild play against Zimbabwe I was very impressed with him , I recall thinking England may just have uncovered a wrist spinner woth writing home about , certainly didnt look out of his depth (although it was only Zimbabwe) & was a handy bat.

He bowled four balls a little to regularly for my likeing (although with the exception of Warne , Mushie & Kumble most leggies do) , but he was a guenuine spinner of the ball , he seemed to have a good temperament & wasnt afraid to throw it up & try buy a wicket.
I still reckon that he could have a role to play for England in future , Giles , Croft , Brown & Keedy could all do a job at test level but IMO none of them will ever be a massive threat to a test quality lineup.
But I reckon with improved control & a bit of coaching (Warnie will be in England next year , aye) , he could be the spinner England have been searching for for a lot longer than I've been around.

Just unfortunately last year he seemed to get a bad case of the yips , just lost confidence in his bowling , as did the Lancashire managment & thus he was picked in the county's first XI more for his batting.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
At least his batting is now just about good enough to hold him a place in the Lancs side. It's better he keeps playing as he at least has a better chance of bowling well if he's playing than if he's not.
However, his bowling last year was poor in all cricket. In 2002 it was actually very good in limited opportunities. However I was anything but impressed with him on his Test debut, I thought he looked thoroughly out-of-depth, well as Goodwin and Johnson played, and was most relieved when he wasn't given an extended spell, for both England and himself.
His best chance is to simply keep practising and hoping against hope that he can string two decent seasons together and avoid just becoming another Ian Salisbury.
Personally I don't rate Gary Keedy in the class of Croft, Giles and Brown. None will trouble a decent Test line-up on a decent wicket (eg the one at The SSC recently) but all three of the latter will do on a Galle, Kandy type pitch. I doubt Keedy will do better than Dawson and Batty have done when presented with favourable conditions.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
The best option is for England not to pick fingerspinners at home, and to pick all three of the aforementioned for tours to the subcontinent and West Indies (whenever the next one is).
Why all 3 for the West Indies?

At most 2 will be picked?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
He, like many others, seems to think that the West Indies is spin-friendly. Not sure why...
No, you've corrected me on that one, and looking at spinners' figures in recent series', it's not hard to see, either.
However, surely the wicket typical to Caribbean grounds offers more to spinners than to seamers?
 

deeps

International 12th Man
just a slight guess on what amits would say

1) Zaheer Khan
2) Harbajan Singh
3) Ashish Nehra
4) Lakshmipathy Balaji
5) Murali Kartik
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
(/Amits FM Radio Station) No here are the best:
1) Matthew Hoggard
2) Jason Brown, with a brilliant first-class average of 3
3) James Anderson
4) Goughie
5) Andy Caddick

(/Normal FM Radio Station)

There are plenty of good ones, who I can't seperate
Lara, Hayden, Ponting, Tendulkar, Trescothick (when on form) Vaughan, Bevan (ODI's)
 

Top