• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Players with misleading averages....

Which of the following players have misleading stats?


  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Okay, you can give credit to a batsman for scoring not outs in reasonable doses, I just don't rate the stats of players who dine out off them. For example, batsman A and batsman B play 4 innings each-

A: 50. 50. 50. 50

B: 50, 25no, 25no, 50

A has scored 25% more runs but has an average 25% less. If you are coming in at number 6 and spend your time batting with the tail or often come in late on a one-day innings you can hold off a bit, score a few runs and take a not out which boosts your average.
Certainly a case for this, yes. Not outs don't "boost your average", but in certain cases batsmen could be criticised for being not-out a lot due to not batting aggressively enough at the end of an innings (obviously leading to their team having a lower score than had they taken a few more risks).

It doesn't stand up for the Huss though. His overall ODI strike rate is 87.93. In innings where he's remained not-out, he strikes at 91.85. That's distorted, however, by games where he's seen his team home to small totals. In the 24 innings where Australia have batted first and Hussey has remained not-out, Hussey strikes at 102.98 (link). This guy's not holding back. He's just not getting out because he's so damn good.
 
Last edited:

L Trumper

State Regular
Most of the 2005 series in Oz he got some rank poor decisions against him. As far as high profile matches i remember the FW series in 92/93 when Healy claimed a stumping against him when he didnt even have the ball in his glove, and in the return series in 95 i clearly remember S Waugh claiming a catch that he knew he'd grassed and last but not least, the 94 series in India WI were 1-0 down and needed quick runs in the 3rd innings of the 3rd test, Lara opens and makes a quick fire 91 and is adjudged not out to a caught behind decision, but being the man he is he walked. Other examples to follow.
I remembered that. That's the first time I noticed him as a walker.
 

Slifer

International Captain
IMO no. For a long time I thought Waugh claimed a grassed catch but on repeated viewing it is a freak dismissal. The ball never touched the ground. Waugh gets far too much flack for not doing anything wrong.
And the other 2 examples??
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Virtually every player ever to have a career of any great length has a misleading average if you talk purely about a career average.

A career average in itself doesn't tell you very much about a player.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Averages just tell you how many runs someone scored for every time they got out. They can't be misleading. Unless they're wrong.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I suppose the misleading is done by those who believe a career average tells you very much about a player beyond how many runs he scored and how many times he was out (if he was a batsman... clearly if it's a bowler it's how many runs he conceded and how many wickets he took).
 
I suppose the misleading is done by those who believe a career average tells you very much about a player beyond how many runs he scored and how many times he was out (if he was a batsman... clearly if it's a bowler it's how many runs he conceded and how many wickets he took).
What I find happens is when a poster has an opinion on a player and stats back up this opinion some people here think that the opinion is formed entirely on stats.

If two people have diferent opinions on a player the person who's opinion is not supported by the stats allways thinks that by stating that stats are not everything and therefore that persons opinion must be wrong also.

I also think that stats tell you a bit more than some people think.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Mohammad Yousuf from that poll..cant do **** in Australia or South Africa..

But you should have had Thilan Samaraweera in that poll. His average is the biggest facade.
 

FBU

International Debutant
I think quite a few bowlers would have better averages if they didn't have any dropped catches. :) Say a bowler playing 50 Tests had 1 dropped catch in every match those possible 50 wickets would alter his averages.

What about bowlers who take more tail end wickets than top order. Aren't their figures helped.

Vaas 42% top order - 22.8% tail
ZKhan 47.5% - 18.5%
Bond 37.9% - 17.2%

Steyn 29.7% - 35.4%
Akram 31% - 35%
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think every bowler would have a better bowling average if there was never a dropped catch of their bowling. Unless of course there is a bowler who has never had a catch dropped off his bowling,in which case his average would remain the same.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think every bowler would have a better bowling average if there was never a dropped catch of their bowling. Unless of course there is a bowler who has never had a catch dropped off his bowling,in which case his average would remain the same.
:laugh:
 

thierry henry

International Coach
If two people have diferent opinions on a player the person who's opinion is not supported by the stats allways thinks that by stating that stats are not everything and therefore that persons opinion must be wrong also.
lol so true

It's so perverse, the number of people who genuinely seem to subscribe to the "the stats support you and therefore you're wrong" line of argument :blink:
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Averages just tell you how many runs someone scored for every time they got out. They can't be misleading. Unless they're wrong.
The average is simply a mathematical number. It is not misleading by itself. The interpretation is what is at times misleading.

Take Mohammad Yousuf.
His average is 53.
During the recent Pak-Aus series, the Aussie commentators kept saying how he is one of the best batsmen in the world, and he is so good, and they kept mentioning that he averages 54 (he did at the start of the series). Shane Warne kept saying "anyone who averages 54 is a dam good player" On the other hand, a Chris Gayle, who does not average 54, and is not considered one of the best batsmen in the world blasted two centuries against the same attack against whom Yousuf failed so miserably.

Now I am not trying to say they are talking crap. What I am saying is, they are obviously being diplomatic and nice to talk up the competition and using his average of 54 to back themselves up. That is the misleading bit. It is misleading because it is incomplete.
Mohammad Yousuf started playing in 98, and I was already an avid follower of cricket by then. So I have followed his career all through. For most part, until 2006, he was never considered in the big league of the best batsmen of his time. He was seen as someone who times the ball well, is stylish, looks very good at times, will score a brisk 40-50 and get out. That was used as a criticism and a reason why he is not considered in the big league.
Then came 2005, when Pakistan started playing a lot of cricket at home. They played England, India, West Indies. Yousuf scored heavily against these teams, and on pitches that were flat as anything. Some of the totals notched up in these matches will tell you how flat the pitches were. Needless to say, neither of these 3 teams had a great bowler at that time. Harmisson was useless on dead pitches. Flintoff was decent at best.

It was during this time that he broke Vivian Richards' record in 2006, and all of a sudden people started taking notice. I think he scored 9 centuries and his heavy scored boosted his average. At the end of the year, Pakistan toured South Africa for 3 test matches, and Yousuf was in the form of his life..but considering how South Africa had a slightly better bowling attack than what he had faced all year, he was back to being the old Yousuf. He scored two 80s in the 3 match series that Pakistan lost 1-2.

The point is, his average of 53 places him as an equal of Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting when it is clear he is quite below them. I am sure with more test matches against quality opponents, his average will fall more and maybe at the end of his career, his average will be 49-50.

So once again, it is not the number, it is the interpretation of that number which is misleading. I am not saying stats are crap. But to say Mohammad Yousuf average 53 is providing incomplete information. It should also add that he averages 30 and 29 against two of the best teams in the world ( Australia and South Africa). I am using stats to make my point, just adding a factor to put things in perspective.

I still remember a test match against India in 2004, where Sehwag got his 300. Pakistan were following on and the match had already gone out of their hands. Yousuf had failed in the first innings, and in the second innings, score a brisk but completely inconsequential century, and unlike Sachin's 100 in the first test against SA, his 100 came when it was clear Pakistan were going to suffer an innings defeat.
The commentators Sanjay Manjrekar and Imran Khan remarked how he could not play the same innings in the first innings against the same attack when there was a bit more pressure on him, and how Yousuf had so far (2004) managed to fail when put under pressure, but bat freely when there is nothing to lose. So that 100 will obviously boost his average and runs, and rightly so, because he did get that a 100, but we would be misleading ourselves if we fail to acknowledge the context.


Another prime example is Thilan Samaraweera. Cricinfo writer Sambit Bal had an excellent article titled "how good is Samaraweera" where he touches on these issues of "misleading statistics" and argues well to put forward his point, that Samaraweera, despite an average of 50 plus is not all that. He uses statistics to make his point too, because statistics by itself is not misleading, but incomplete statistics is.
 
Last edited:

Top