Players with full careers who would have had better records in other teams

[BazBall21]

Good bowler and a rare England bowler that fared better overseas like Snow. In this exercise most England players that come to mind are batsmen because the decent bowlers they produce tend to love bowling in England.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

Larwood for Australia would have been menance. Also would have full career rather than what he got, sadly.

England also played much more than Australia - 'English test spam' is not a new thing. Between the World Wars, Australia played 35 tests at home and 32 away, hosting 7 tours. England/MCC played 58 at home and 62 away (guaranteeed, one of those times was two tours simultaneously), hosting 12 tours. In fact, the only way to really have a 'full career' was to play for England, with Australia a distant second - the only place they toured other than England was South Africa (twice). Australia played neither India nor New Zealand until after WWII, and only played South Africa and the West Indies one series each at home.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah, could definitely see Thorpe fighting for a spot, maybe at 6 at the expense of Blewett.

Stewart is unfortunately a bit railroaded by Taylor and Healy being the blokes he had to replace.

 

[mr_mister]

Oh another good one is Jack Cowie. His cric info article has a quote like "if he was Australian he'd have been deemed a wonder of the age "

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah, could definitely see Thorpe fighting for a spot, maybe at 6 at the expense of Blewett.

Stewart is unfortunately a bit railroaded by Taylor and Healy being the blokes he had to replace.

I know that Gilchrist averaged a bit less in FC which suggests a big chunk of his test career came in his prime but it's still incredible to think Healy was keeping him out for so long. More emphasis on glove-work back then but I also suspect in a weaker Australian era like the 80s Gilchrist might have been given a chance just as a batsman.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah. Him and Taylor were just undroppable it seemed. Just part of the furniture in the dressing room

I guess when your team is winning you are hesitant to tinker with the captain and keeper's spot in the side. It seems like an if it ain't broke don't fix it situation

 

[Carlos]

Opposition breakdown and the pudding pitches might have helped but I don't rate Hick's technique. Atherton and Stewart were unlucky and better players than their averages. Same sentiment on Gooch and Gower from the generation before. Hick though for me wasn't fundamentally cut out for test cricket.

How can you say Atherton and Stewart were better than their averages they both played well over 100 tests each and both were given extended runs and treated much better than Hick, Crawley or Ramprakash. Doesn't make sense bud.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah. Him and Taylor were just undroppable it seemed. Just part of the furniture in the dressing room

I guess when your team is winning you are hesitant to tinker with the captain and keeper's spot in the side. It seems like an if it ain't broke don't fix it situation

Yeah for sure. The fact they were a winning team helped Healy. If things weren't going so well, his batting may have stood out like a sore thumb when they were searching for problems/weaknesses. But his keeping was a tidy little addition for them to have and by all accounts he was very popular in the dressing room. Warne loved him.

 

[BazBall21]

How can you say Atherton and Stewart were better than their averages they both played well over 100 tests each and both were given extended runs and treated much better than Hick, Crawley or Ramprakash. Doesn't make sense bud.

Look at Atherton's opposition breakdown; and Stewart averaged 44 as a top 3 bat and 46 without the gloves. Common sense says Atherton with a conventional breakdown of attacks faced averages 40+ and Stewart being better than his average is effectively a proven fact.

 

[BazBall21]

And Streak plays for England and is the first Englishman to 400 test wickets.

Very good underrated bowler.

 

[Molehill]

Yeah for sure. The fact they were a winning team helped Healy. If things weren't going so well, his batting may have stood out like a sore thumb when they were searching for problems/weaknesses. But his keeping was a tidy little addition for them to have and by all accounts he was very popular in the dressing room. Warne loved him.

The other thing that helped Healy was having 2 all time great bowlers. With the chances those 2 were generating, it pays to have the best gloveman available.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Not sure about that. Australia at the time was, if not exactly a graveyard, certainly a much less friendly place for fast bowlers than it is today with timeless matches promoting generally drier wickets and spin-bowling. Furhermore, although there were various fast and fast-medium bowlers about (including some throwers), they weren't likely to be picked.

Australia hosted five five-test series in the 30s. Against the West Indies in 1930/31, specialist fast-bowler Wall was picked only in the first test, with others opened with Fairfax (Wall's opening partner in that test, and an all-rounder) and Hurwood or Oxenham - medium-pacers with the former also bowling spin.
Against South Africa in 1931/32, Wall partnered with McCabe's mediums in the first two tests, and specialist medium-pacer a'Beckett (4 tests, 3 wickets at 105.66) in the third. He was replaced in the 4th test by Thurlow (fast medium), who was replaced by Nash (fast) in the 5th, both opening with McCabe.
Against England in 1932/33, Wall played the first four tests, but only had a specialist seamer at the other end (Nagel) in one, and McCabe in the other three. Wall was replaced with Alexander (actually fast as well!) in the final test, and Alexander kept the same opening partner.
Australia hosted only one more test series in the 30s, against England in 1936/37. Ernie McCormick, a genuine fast-bowler, opened the first two tests with Sievers (fast-medium, and something of an all-rounder) and the fourth with McCabe. Seivers and McCabe opened in the third test - I'd presume McCormick was injured. Only in the fifth test did McCormick have a proper fast bowler - Nash - at the other end.

In twenty tests, Australia picked two proper fast-bowlers only once and partnered them with a specialist medium-pacer in five. In five, no geniune fast-bowler was picked at all, and some of the medium pacers had at least pretensions to all-rounder status to aid their selection or were really more batsmen.

If you look at overseas tours, you see the same pattern occurring of only picking one specialist fast or fast-medium bowler and partnering them with Fairfax (21 wickets in 18 innings at 30.71) or McCabe (36 wickets in 62 innings at 42.86). The final test of the 1938 Ashes (the Len Hutton record and 7d/903 test) was opened by two medium-paced all-rounders in McCabe and Waite: Wisden said of this: "The sight of McCabe and Waite beginning Australia's attack in a Test match was almost ludicrous."

In contrast, England was - helped by Allen's batting average of 24.19 to go with his bowling average of 29.37 - usually able to pick an attack of three decent fast or fast-medium bowlers. They consistently picked a faster attack than Australia. And yes, I recognise that Larwood debuted in 1926, however conditions in Australia were not generally different, and Gregory, our only regular fast-bowler, was an all-rounder (so was medium-pacer Kelleway who opened with him after McDonald moved to England).
Larwood averaged in tests 28.35, compared to Gregory's 31.15, Wall's 35.89 and McCormick's 29.97, so he was better than the Australian regulars (not helped by the 1930 Ashes, where with Bradman playing he averaged 73.00). However, his record in Australia shows perhaps why bodyline was so noteworthy. In 1932/33, he averaged 19.51, but on his Ashes previous tour in 1928/29, he averged 40.22, taking 18 wickets in 10 innings - 8 of these wickets came in the first test as well.

I know but Larwood 1932/33 at 28 years may well be the greatest bowler to ever bowl in Australian Soil. Worth remembering he didn’t have anything the stamina in 28/29 that he later possessed. Given he was just 28 when being virtually forced to retire, I think he could have finished up with lot better stats plus ofc no Bradman. With O’Reilly, Grimmett that would have been a hell of a Bowling Lineup.

 

[subshakerz]

Reckon Kapil, Zaheer and Vaas playing for England would be averaging two to three points better.

Wasim would have had better stats playing for any team that had a better slip cordon.

 

[reyrey]

Reckon Kapil, Zaheer and Vaas playing for England would be averaging two to three points better.

Wasim would have had better stats playing for any team that had a better slip cordon.

This reminded me of Danish Kaneria and his misfortune of having Kamral Akmal keep to him. He averaged 36.51 with Akmal and 30.44 without

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Glenn McGrath playing for England probably averages under 20 in his Test career and probably racks up 150 Test wickets at Lords alone.

 

[howitzer]

Glenn McGrath playing for England probably averages under 20 in his Test career and probably racks up 150 Test wickets at Lords alone.

Just involuntarily made a mess of myself tbf.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

A **** load of Australian 130kph swing/seam merchants who were decent at best bowlers in Aus conditions could have had good Test careers in England.

Didn’t work out for Martin McCague.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Didn’t work out for Martin McCague.

Like Darren Pattinson, actually proves my point

from a certain point of view

 

[Line and Length]

I have a feeling Frank Tyson would have thrived in the Australian team of the time.

 

[Chubb]

Look at Atherton's opposition breakdown; and Stewart averaged 44 as a top 3 bat and 46 without the gloves. Common sense says Atherton with a conventional breakdown of attacks faced averages 40+ and Stewart being better than his average is effectively a proven fact.

Atherton's serious back problem - ankylosing spondylitis - is a bigger factor in his relatively low average IMO. If he didn't have the back issue he might have averaged 40+ even for England. To average what he did with that condition, against those attacks, was a great career really.