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Players with full careers who would have had better records in other teams
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Chris Broad I would say was of that type. Averaged 26 in England in test and 78 in Australia (with a small sample size)
A genuine imponderable. Not impossible that he could have done so with less pressure and focus.
BazBall21
International Vice-Captain
Opposition breakdown and the pudding pitches might have helped but I don't rate Hick's technique. Atherton and Stewart were unlucky and better players than their averages. Same sentiment on Gooch and Gower from the generation before. Hick though for me wasn't fundamentally cut out for test cricket.
Chubb
International Regular
This is true, but IIRC, Stewart could have said no to wicketkeeping and still been selected. But he wanted to do it and got annoyed when Russell or one of the other keepers was chosen over him.
TheJediBrah
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Shane Warne for India
wouldn't have had to bowl to Indian batsmen
semi srs
wouldn't have had to bowl to Indian batsmen
semi srs
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
basically any English batsmen from the 90s would have fared better in either SA or WI if they could make it in - it would have traded facing Donald/Pollock/De Villiers or Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop for Gough/Cork/Fraser
Obviously removing McWarne from the equation would be most ideal but I can't realistically see many english batsmen making that Aus top 6
Obviously removing McWarne from the equation would be most ideal but I can't realistically see many english batsmen making that Aus top 6
OverratedSanity
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Would've been smashed by ranji players and gotten nowhere near the national team imo
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
And Streak plays for England and is the first Englishman to 400 test wickets.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Regular
Larwood for Australia would have been menance. Also would have full career rather than what he got, sadly.
TheJediBrah
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Wouldn't have survived on the food either. I remember reading that he refused to eat local cuisine and brought bags of tinned baked beans on tour
Edit: Apparently he got baked beans delivered to wherever they were staying because he couldn't handle the spicy food
subshakerz
International Coach
Coach wouldn't have allowed him to keep such an open bowling action without any attempt at googlies.
subshakerz
International Coach
Ijaz Ahmed would have rocked if he was an Aussie, he loved the bounce there.
Brett Kee in Pakistan with Wasim and Waqar mentoring could have been a much more deadly test bowler IMO.
Brett Kee in Pakistan with Wasim and Waqar mentoring could have been a much more deadly test bowler IMO.
NotMcKenzie
International Debutant
Not sure about that. Australia at the time was, if not exactly a graveyard, certainly a much less friendly place for fast bowlers than it is today with timeless matches promoting generally drier wickets and spin-bowling. Furhermore, although there were various fast and fast-medium bowlers about (including some throwers), they weren't likely to be picked.
Australia hosted five five-test series in the 30s. Against the West Indies in 1930/31, specialist fast-bowler Wall was picked only in the first test, with others opened with Fairfax (Wall's opening partner in that test, and an all-rounder) and Hurwood or Oxenham - medium-pacers with the former also bowling spin.
Against South Africa in 1931/32, Wall partnered with McCabe's mediums in the first two tests, and specialist medium-pacer a'Beckett (4 tests, 3 wickets at 105.66) in the third. He was replaced in the 4th test by Thurlow (fast medium), who was replaced by Nash (fast) in the 5th, both opening with McCabe.
Against England in 1932/33, Wall played the first four tests, but only had a specialist seamer at the other end (Nagel) in one, and McCabe in the other three. Wall was replaced with Alexander (actually fast as well!) in the final test, and Alexander kept the same opening partner.
Australia hosted only one more test series in the 30s, against England in 1936/37. Ernie McCormick, a genuine fast-bowler, opened the first two tests with Sievers (fast-medium, and something of an all-rounder) and the fourth with McCabe. Seivers and McCabe opened in the third test - I'd presume McCormick was injured. Only in the fifth test did McCormick have a proper fast bowler - Nash - at the other end.
In twenty tests, Australia picked two proper fast-bowlers only once and partnered them with a specialist medium-pacer in five. In five, no geniune fast-bowler was picked at all, and some of the medium pacers had at least pretensions to all-rounder status to aid their selection or were really more batsmen.
If you look at overseas tours, you see the same pattern occurring of only picking one specialist fast or fast-medium bowler and partnering them with Fairfax (21 wickets in 18 innings at 30.71) or McCabe (36 wickets in 62 innings at 42.86). The final test of the 1938 Ashes (the Len Hutton record and 7d/903 test) was opened by two medium-paced all-rounders in McCabe and Waite: Wisden said of this: "The sight of McCabe and Waite beginning Australia's attack in a Test match was almost ludicrous."
In contrast, England was - helped by Allen's batting average of 24.19 to go with his bowling average of 29.37 - usually able to pick an attack of three decent fast or fast-medium bowlers. They consistently picked a faster attack than Australia. And yes, I recognise that Larwood debuted in 1926, however conditions in Australia were not generally different, and Gregory, our only regular fast-bowler, was an all-rounder (so was medium-pacer Kelleway who opened with him after McDonald moved to England).
Larwood averaged in tests 28.35, compared to Gregory's 31.15, Wall's 35.89 and McCormick's 29.97, so he was better than the Australian regulars (not helped by the 1930 Ashes, where with Bradman playing he averaged 73.00). However, his record in Australia shows perhaps why bodyline was so noteworthy. In 1932/33, he averaged 19.51, but on his Ashes previous tour in 1928/29, he averged 40.22, taking 18 wickets in 10 innings - 8 of these wickets came in the first test as well.
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BazBall21
International Vice-Captain
Definitely a top 3 Pakistan batsman OAT in Australian conditions.
BazBall21
International Vice-Captain
Stewart could definitely have pushed Taylor close purely on batting grounds but Taylor had captaincy in the bank. Thorpe imo was better than Junior but don't think many Australians would agree with that. Definitely gets in over Greg Blewett though. Not including Gooch as he only played half the 90s.
None of the bowlers have any hope though. Batting was England's stronger suit in the late 80s and 90s.