OK to taunt Murali says MacGill

[Anil]

The difference is Warne did his time, Murali is still 'bowling'

..no the difference is that warne deserved what he got(as far as a suspension goes) and more, murali doesn't...

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think it is ridiculous that u think it is ridiculous. It is an inflammatory comment and inflammatory comments have no place in spectator sports. End of story.

Nah, I'm afraid I totally disagree. It's an inflammatory comment, but it's not beyond the pale by any stretch of the imagination, and there's no way it would be remotely fair to evict paying spectators for chanting "no ball". I agree that there has to be a clear line in the sand regarding conduct towards players, and a ticket at the ground doesn't allow you to whatever you want, but that line should be drawn at things like racial abuse and physical violence, not at inflammatory remarks which might happen to offend a player. The same goes for the Warne's and Gillespie's of the world, as well as Murali.

 

[archie mac]

..no the difference is that warne deserved what he got(as far as a suspension goes) and more, murali doesn't...

In Your Opinion But not mine

 

[Chubby Rain]

In Your Opinion But not mine

Good thing for international cricket you're not in charge then, isn't it?

 

[biased indian]

In Your Opinion But not mine

But in mine opinion also u r wrong

 

[honestbharani]

Heh. "Barbarians". Someone's being a little bit over-dramatic, I would suggest...

"Leaving that aside, when the hell has Warne been called a cheat..."

By a hell of a lot of people. After the "John the Bookie" thing and the diuretic ban, for starters. I've seen people on this very board flatly accuse him of being a match-fixer and a steroid user, using those incidents as "proof". Are they barbarians too?

Come to think of it, judging by the joy you seem to get sliding in a few little digs at Warne's expense in this thread, maybe I should spend a little time looking through some past posts? You wouldn't have made such a false, baseless, "barbaric" claim in one of the ridiculously numerous Warne-Murali threads, would you?

Wouldn't it be funny if our holier-than-thou emperor here was actually butt-arsed naked?

A lot of people in England? A lot of people in Sri Lanka? How many series did he play after his drug ban? Sri Lanka? Don't think the crowd was that bad there and I am sure there was no concerted effort to shout out things at him while he was bowling... India? Check out the matches... There were absolutely no insults. Warney has been the darling of Indian crowds ever since 98... I KNOW this for sure.. Where else did he play after that? Against Pakistan in Sharjah? There were basically no crowds there anyway. England? Again, while it may have been concerted at times, it was not as heavy as it was with Murali. It was obvious from watching the matches. Warney was affected, no doubt about it, but he handled it differently. Doesn't mean Murali HAS to do the same and it doesn't mean it is the right way either.

And while you are at it, you SHOULD dig up old threads and read up on my views on Warne.... The only reason I had a few digs at his performance was because sideshowtim said he shut up people by his WONDERFUL bowling performances everywhere... His performances have not been WONDERFUL everywhere, just like Murali and perhaps every other bowler in the history of the world and secondly, he hardly ever had to shut up an Indian crowd because they loved him anyway.... Also, the implication was that Murali had not performed everywhere, which is even more stupid....The guy has not performed in Australia, doesn't mean he has not performed everywhere...

So, "your wife is a wh..e and your child is a b..tard" is nothing compared to " you don't hurl a little ball in the way that the rules to a game say you should".

Really? You REALLY want to argue THAT point?

Now, going by the previous point, I would suggest that maybe you shouldn't be intimating that others are off the planet. You know, glass houses and all that?

Warne has been targeted by more invasive media attention than any other cricketer in history by a fair margin. Whether that is more or less than the guff that Murali has taken at the hands of a few stadia worth of cricket crowds and a dozen or so former players is debatable. It is certainly in the same ballpark.

Ok.. So plz tell me where else has Warne been insulted in a concerted way apart from England. And when was it personal apart from the 2005 Ashes implicating his bowling, his action, his integrity and the very damn right of him to be a cricket player? It may not seem important to you but it seems important for Murali and if you cannot respect that, maybe you really don't deserve to see the joy of him playing in your shores. And to actually BLAME the man for doing that is beyond comprehension, really. People get hurt at different things and YOU cannot be the one deciding what is acceptable abuse and what isn't for that individual. (BTW, before you go insulting me personally again, I would like to clarify that the YOU here is generic, meaning the idiots who shout NO BALL at Murali. I like to think you are not one of them.)


And when did I say it was easy to handle personal insults? I said it was easy to handle them once or twice but to handle it over ten years and see it cropping up again and again is not on. How would you bowl if I kept yelling NO BALL at your ears when you are trying to concentrate and bowl? Don't you think sportsmen deserve that little bit of space? Insulting is wrong and has to go out of the game. The players owe spectators sure, but doesn't mean they have to put up with ridiculous and personal insults, esp. when they are false. They are human beings too.... And the idiots who can't see that and want to talk about their divorces, marital problems, wife having affairs and calling NO BALL when he bowls legally..... Those guys don't deserve to watch the bloody game of cricket. They can't be lovers of cricket for sure..... The line between Fun and Insult is when it starts to affect the player personally and once it crosses that line, the involved guys in the crowd should be warned and if they still don't mend their ways, they should be evicted. End of story. Something that works quite beautifully in India.....


And about media invasion, you don't think Sachin's privacy has been intruded? The guy has cameras following him 24 hours a day.... Surely, Warne's thing is not greater than Sachin? And I can easily criticize Warne for not being such a clean guy like Sachin, but I won't... Simply because they are different guys and just because Sachin can check his behaviour doesn't mean Warne has to..... Same thing here with Murali and Warne. Warne handles such insults in a certain way, doesn't mean Murali has to bear it in the same way. Diff. ppl, diff. tolerance levels etc. etc.....

Those BARBARIANS! Don't they know that they should be treating him with decency? They OWE him that. Can't someone PLEASE just think of the CHILDREN!

(Sorry- got a little carried away there...)

Of course, you did... because you adore Warne (absolutely nothing wrong in that) and you thought I was insulting him and you were all over me. Imagine the same about some Murali fans in the crowd and the Aussie crowds go after him like that... We could end up with brawls everywhere.. Is that what you want? Can't you see why such people should be evicted? And the issue is not about Murali here... No player should have to put up with personal abuse that affects him..... The spectators are not the only HUMAN beings involved in cricket...

I would bet the farm that he would. Not a doubt in my mind. I'm sure you'll disagree. You'll be hideously wrong, but that doesn't seem to phase you a great deal.

Really? Did u watch the match? I was in the crowd up over the pavilion and we were roaring every ball when he was running in with the record insight. And there was a roar as he got the wicket. There was not any silent applause of a player because he has broken the world record, there was a real genuine love of that player and the fact that he has broken the world record. Almost everyone in the crowd seemed to think "Ha.. What a great bowler and a great achievement. Such a great privilege to be here when it happened"... U think the same sort of thing will happen to Murali in Australia? I am sure people will applaud but will they appreciate it as much, given what a great record it is? Will there be the genuine affection or just standing up and clapping because he has broken the world record? That is why I had my doubts and I still do. There was a lot of genuineness when they cheered for him in the Tsunami match but again, it was back to usual during the super series.

The "Aussie crowd" spend their hard earned money to finance the spectacle in front of them. They can cheer or boo whomever they please- the same as EVERY other crowd in the world. I have been watching cricket (as well as other professional sports) for 25 years now, and I haven't seen a team in the world that doesn't have to deal with hostile crowds at away games. Not one.

More to the point, there isn't a crowd in the world that doesn't save special treatment for certain opposition players when they visit. It is part of the spectacle of professional representative sports, and it happens everywhere. It is also entirely valid.

Funnily enough, the players that tend to get a special roast from the opposition crowd are often the players that the crowd most respects. Just like Botham in Australia, Warne in the UK etc.

As for what the "Aussie crowd should realise"- when in Rome...

Cheering and Booing is always fine. Personally (and racially) insulting the players is not on. Not when it is not an one off which can be ignored, but if it is carried on all over the country in a concerted way, with the only intention of maligning the person and taunting him and questioning his very place in the game on an issue which is emotive to him is just not on. No matter how much money they pay and how hard they have worked to earn it, it doesn't give them the right to emotionally keep hurting the sportsmen in that way. Hostile crowds and boos are always part of it, but some of the insults on Murali is worse than what you see heels get in the WWE!!!! Special treatment or sledging about their capabilities in the game is one thing. But when it has been proven that the guy is no different from other bowlers in terms of action, to keep shouting NO BALL when he is about to bowl and say that he is a CHUCKER, which means you are questioning his very right to play the game and branding him a CHEAT.... That is not on. As I said, just because you pay so many dollars to get into a cricket match doesn't mean you OWN these players. They are human beings too and they will have sensitive issues. I dunno about you, but if that Gilchrist sledge had continued, I would have asked action to be taken by the SA board if I were him. And same with Warney and England. If he is the sort of a guy who feeds off such stuff and bowls well, good for him. Doesn't mean Murali is in the wrong if he has a problem with it and decides to speak up. And as I said, it is upto the authorities to have stricter vigils on such issues. And don't tell me it can't be done, it is done every time a match is played in Chennai and behold the results!!!!

Murali can deal with it however he sees fit.

That has been my point all along.

If Murali is as distraught about the heckling he has received as some here are (and, frankly, I don't for one second think he expends as much time, energy and angst over this as some of the diehards here do, but that's a different story) then I would suggest he should find solace in the fact that the man who is universally liked, respected and admired has yet to be born.

A fact of life is that some won't admire you, no matter what you do. If that makes you somehow feel less worthy, then I would suggest that the issue is with you, rather than them.

I don't think Warne is so distraught about some people taking some digs at his bowling but you were. This is all beside the point. Yes, I admire Murali and I like to speak up for him when some ridiculous things are said about him like here in this forum, just like how you thought it fit to post like this when you saw something that you thought was ridiculous... And what makes you think that he wants to be universally liked,respected and admired. I think all he is asking for is to leave him alone when he is bowling instead of being continually taunted with an issue that is emotive to him.

Mean? Maybe. Boo hoo.

Vitriolic and malice-intended? Please...

Watch ANY instance of the crowd doing the "no-ball" schtick when Murali is bowling. You will see infinitely more smiling faces in the crowd than snarling. Whether you accept it or not, the crowd is giving Murali a roast- no more, no less.



Yep. And others can make whatever comment about whether they agree with the way he handles the issue or not. And that is the end of that.



Heh. "Hurting him emotionally". You should write for daytime soaps.

of course it is like that. I have seen guys like DAsa and Jason post here (and they are guys who are very very well respected here) that the chants and what happens around it are very much vitriolic and malice-intended.... Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is not so. And of course, it hurts Murali emotionally, why else would he make such a big deal out of it? And plz cut down on the advice. I have a few suggestions on what you could do for a living but I like to think that you are a good poster and this is not the way I like to argue issues here. Maybe you can try arguing the point than the person making them, for starters.....

And Yes, others can make comments on whether they agree or not and others can comment on those comments and some others can comment on those comments and so on..... What is your point?

They haven't cut down on these chant because, just like EVERY other crowd in the world, they can make whatever comment on the game that they wish. When they slap their money down for a ticket, they buy that right, like it or not. More to the point, the performers on the field (that includes the umpires, by the way) SELL that right to the paying public.

See above. There is absolutely no need to control them. Their actions are entirely valid.

Not at all... They pay a few dollars to watch the cricket. Not to personally insult the players on issues which are dear to them. Otherwise, every other crowd would chant certain words which are even banned here in this forum and the whole game would denegenerate very quickly to hooliganism and stuff. Already there are instances of some rowdy groups getting in during games in Chennai with the sole intention of creating trouble and stealing stuff during the pandemonium. And it all starts this way only. Insult the players, some spectators come to argue with you, make it a big deal and then all hell breaks loose. And it is due to the wonderful policing and spectator control in chennai that we have always nipped these in the bud. And even leaving that aside, There is no reason why players have to put up with personal insults just because a few think it is fun and they have played a few dollars. Even in Australia, the Australian posters here have mentioned that it is only a minority who indulge in such stuff and surely they don't give a damn about the game, so why are they so precious that they should not be lost from the game? Cricket is for cricket lovers, pure and simple. There is nothing wrong in having fun but as I said, it ceases to be fun when it starts encroaching on another guy's emotions.

Yes, they are. They are there to play cricket and the crowd is there to respond to what happens on the field. If Murali doesn't want to play in Australia because of it, that would be a crying shame, but is his choice. Once he takes his cut of the ticket price, he has to deal with whatever the response to his actions might be. That's how he earns his living.

If things get racial, then he has a point. Being taunted by the crowd for his action doesn't even go close.

Not at all. Players are there to play cricket and spectators are there to watch and enjoy it. Not to sprout out nonsense involving the players' feelings just because they have paid a few dollars. It is the worst assumption to make that you can yell out all sorts of nonsense and that the players shouldn't react. Everyone is a stakeholder here and everyone is supposed to behave decently. Inzy going after a spectator was bad but the guy yelling out things which hurt Inzy over a loudspeaker when he is trying to concentrate on a game of cricket is worse. That incident should have never come to such a pass because the ground guys should have evicted this person the moment they realized that his actions were infuriating Inzy.

Oh- I've heard a stupider one. There was this one guy who said that having a whole crowd of people questioning the virtue of your wife and the legitimacy of your child was "easy to be cool" about.

Pretty stupid, eh?

It is even stupider when the person can't realize that what I meant was that it is EASIER to be cool about personal insults in an one off than when it continues on and on and on over so many years and in all grounds in a certain country... I never EVER said that it is easier to deal with than what Murali goes through. And of course, people questioning the virtues of ur child and wife is worse than questioning a person's bowling action, but is it worse than racial abuse, which Murali HAS copped in Australia a number of times???? Questioning a person's whole descendancy and its rights???

You must seriously stop putting words into my mouth here, but then again, I reckon you care more abt your rants than facts...

They already have. Racial abuse is out, pretty much everything else is in.

I don't agree with that and I think you will see that a lot of boards in the subcontinent won't agree with that either.

If you think that ANY governing body is going to (or, for that matter, should) ban "no-ball" chants, you are deluded.

They already have, in Chennai. So who is deluded now?

And I think it's ridiculous that you think it's ridiculous that he thinks ridiculous. So there.

Inflammatory comments from the crowd have been a part of professional sports for as long as they have existed, from every country at every level. Deal with it.

Sportsmen get to make a phenomenal living from playing a game that they enjoy. They make that living because people want to watch what they do, and react and comment according to what they feel. Part of being a professional is dealing with those reactions. To condemn MacGill for making that very point is beyond asinine.

Inflammatory comments about a person or his skills in the sport is one thing. Personally insulting the guy is not on. If the issue is emotive to the person and it is obviously falsehood, then the authorities should eradicate such things (like what happened with Gilchrist and what is happening to Murali, even if they are not on the same scale)... They make a living out of what they do in their sports, not in their personal lives..... Those kind of comments have no place in the game. Even the Murali one is not as bad as a Gilchrist or a Warne being questioned about their marriages. Such nonsense has to be stopped.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah, I'm afraid I totally disagree. It's an inflammatory comment, but it's not beyond the pale by any stretch of the imagination, and there's no way it would be remotely fair to evict paying spectators for chanting "no ball". I agree that there has to be a clear line in the sand regarding conduct towards players, and a ticket at the ground doesn't allow you to whatever you want, but that line should be drawn at things like racial abuse and physical violence, not at inflammatory remarks which might happen to offend a player. The same goes for the Warne's and Gillespie's of the world, as well as Murali.

And I think the exact opposite. I just think that personal abuse has no place in cricket, either from the players themselves or from the spectators and that goes for all the Gilchrists, Muralis and Warnes of the world.

 

[archie mac]

Good thing for international cricket you're not in charge then, isn't it?

For Murali, yes

 

[PhoenixFire]

The difference is Warne did his time, Murali is still 'bowling'

Argh people like this annoy me no end. Murali was cleared!! How many times to people have to say that. You don't know better than the scientists.

 

[archie mac]

Argh people like this annoy me no end. Murali was cleared!! How many times to people have to say that. You don't know better than the scientists.

Ha ha, we won't have this conversation again, I do not have the energy, suffice to say I think he throws and even in tests they say they can not yet prove it in match conditions that he bowls legally

They can't prove it in real time yet, they say one day they will be able to, and then I will be convinced but not yet

 

[PhoenixFire]

But they have analysed his bowling in Tests with bio cameras......

 

[archie mac]

But they have analysed his bowling in Tests with bio cameras......

Yes, but I read a report and even the testers say it is not 100% accurate as yet, I still can't imagine my eyes can be that wrong, but maybe one day I will have to, and then I will say sorry to all and sundry

 

[PhoenixFire]

Fair enough, each to their own. I still reckon he has been really hard done by, by so many different people.

 

[archie mac]

Fair enough, each to their own. I still reckon he has been really hard done by, by so many different people.

Yes history will decide

 

[Richard]

I still can't imagine my eyes can be that wrong

But why not? There's ample optological evidence that the eye is ridiculously easy to deceive. Have you ever tried any of these "eye-teasers" that you can sometimes find in optical specialists? It's astonishing the extent to which tricks can be played on and by the eye.

 

[Richard]

And I think the exact opposite. I just think that personal abuse has no place in cricket, either from the players themselves or from the spectators and that goes for all the Gilchrists, Muralis and Warnes of the world.

TBH, hbh, I actually agree with Fuller on this - I think that's a bit too idealistic. It'd be nice, yes, if you could completely cut-out any crap being thrown from the stands. But you can't - it'd be difficult to introduce rulings ITFP, and virtually impossible to police them.

Me, I've never been one for yelling stupid names at anyone (even those I detest there are far better methods to deal with matters) but sadly there are people who are. Some of these are yobs and ****s, but some are actually perfectly decent people who just, well, have asides to their character that are less desirable to the likes of you and me.

As I say - it's really not something you can cut-out, sadly.

 

[honestbharani]

TBH, hbh, I actually agree with Fuller on this - I think that's a bit too idealistic. It'd be nice, yes, if you could completely cut-out any crap being thrown from the stands. But you can't - it'd be difficult to introduce rulings ITFP, and virtually impossible to police them.

Me, I've never been one for yelling stupid names at anyone (even those I detest there are far better methods to deal with matters) but sadly there are people who are. Some of these are yobs and ****s, but some are actually perfectly decent people who just, well, have asides to their character that are less desirable to the likes of you and me.

As I say - it's really not something you can cut-out, sadly.

I am not saying you cut it out completely, but if it is an emotional issue which can trigger off reactions, either amongst the fellow spectators or among the players, you have to draw the line and cut it out..... This is not even about Murali anymore. I mean, how was it any good to say those nasty things about Gilchrist and his wife and Slater back there in RSA? Why can't they just throw those few idiots out, one day, and send the message across that such nonsense won't be tolerated.... You do it once, I promise you, you will see a real change in the attitude of these idiots.

 

[Richard]

Because, sadly, it's not just a few idiots. It's 90% of crowds and the like (sometimes, not always).

As I say - impossible to police really. Almost like the ban on Mexican Waves - had some sense (dumbaesses throwing rubbish and worse is seriously dangerous) but there's just no way you can evict entire crowds.

 

[biased indian]

Yes history will decide

 

[Chubby Rain]

For the sake of justice, yes

Fixed